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Jim,

I did not call the 5% insignificant ... I said they have other ways of
contributing.

If you can find me an alternative that has all the features and
functionality
at the same zero cost and support a more open approach, I'm all ears.

====================================
Richard Conn, Principal Investigator
Reuse Tapestry


-----Original Message-----
From: jim hopper [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 11:29 PM
To: Richard Conn; [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: R_Conn invites you to join ASE LIBRARY, an MSN Web
Community


Richard,

actually my reasons are mostly one of principle and partly practicability.

On the practical i use a mac, and if it was as simple as changing to
explorer it would annoy me but i might be able to deal.  however, its
not really that simple.  msn is widely know to only fully support
windows.  to fully participate i would have to change computers,
Operating systems etc.  thats a lot to ask to participate in such an
endeavor.  People are free to use in my mind whatever technology they
find most useful, so i am not begrudging your choice.

on the principle side i belive strongly in diversity in how problems
are solved.  Microsoft has worked very hard to take freedom of choice
away from us.  unless people stand up and say look i will not
participate in your technology as long as you commit these
anti-social acts, they will continue to do it. there is an equivalent
mac only technology for doing web sites file sharing etc.  i would
NEVER consider using it for anything but supporting the mac port of
gnat, and probably not then.

so please don't dismiss my concerns as "emotional" they are based
upon a very strongly held position that Microsoft is trying their
best to destroy! Look at what they are trying to propagate with their
new language c# as just the latest attempt!

You are correct you are a volunteer and as such its more than fair
for you to use whatever technology you want.   I was not questioning
that right, only commenting on your statement that it wouldnt limit
(and fragment) the ada world.  we are small enough without excluding
segments of our population and calling them insignificant.

jim



At 12:51 AM -0400 7/6/00, Richard Conn wrote:
>Hi, Jim,
>
>Your position sounds more emotional than logical for a number of reasons,
>but that's not the issue, really.  The point really is that my move in
>this direction will not stop anyone from collaborating if they wish,
>and, as a volunteer, this move will put a pretty good supporting
>infrastructure
>under me that greatly reduces my overhead and workload while simultaneously
>increasing the level of collaboration that is possible.  I made an honest
>attempt
>to find a way to adapt this infrastructure while satisfying everyone,
>including
>the 5% that does not use Microsoft technology, and did not find a solution
>in
>a reasonable amount of time.
>
>If you can find an equivalent supporting infrastructure with the same level
>of functionality and ease of use that addresses the entire audience, I'm
>interested
>in hearing about it.  Good luck.
>
>Rick
>====================================
>Richard Conn, Principal Investigator
>Reuse Tapestry
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: jim hopper [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 1:36 PM
>To: Richard Conn; [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: R_Conn invites you to join ASE LIBRARY, an MSN Web
>Community
>
>
>At 4:53 PM -0400 7/5/00, Richard Conn wrote:
>>Thanks for the update, Steve,
>>
>>It's looking more and more like users are at least at a partial
>disadvantage
>>if
>>they use Netscape.  In this weekend's experiments, we could not find any
>way
>>to
>>use Netscape in the Community Chat Room (altho there is a Netscape add-in
>>for
>
>
>what else is new!
>
>>chat.msn.com, but that's not the same).  However, service was very
reliable
>>(probably partially due to a load drop over the July 4 holiday).  Some of
>us
>>had 3 hours worth of Chat Room time non-stop without interruption.
>>
>>Hopefully, being driven to Microsoft technologies for this site won't
drive
>>anyone away.  Besides, there is always direct contact, but the resources
of
>>the Community take a lot of the work of collaboration away.
>
>Sorry i don't see the point of having to change my whole way of doing
>business on the internet just to be part of this.  not to mention if
>you are on a unix box you have no choice but to use netscape.  so yes
>at least for me (and 2 or 3 other people i know) this will keep us
>from collaborating.  to me its not collaboration if i have to be
>coorced into using the tools someone else prefers.  its your site and
>you are perfectly free (and i am sure will) disregard this ;-)
>
>jim
>
>
>
>
>
>>Thanks again,
>>Rick
>>====================================
>>Richard Conn, Principal Investigator
>>Reuse Tapestry
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)
>>[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Stephen Schwarm
>>Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 9:43 AM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: R_Conn invites you to join ASE LIBRARY, an MSN Web
>>Community
>>
>>
>>Richard Conn wrote:
>>>
>>>   Hi, Jim,
>>>
>>>   What kind of problem led you to that conclusion?  I carefully checked
>out
>>>   the
>>>   site from a UNIX system running Netscape, and it worked fine.  I know
of
>>at
>>>   least
>>>   one UNIX/Netscape user who has joined the community.
>>>
>>>   >From what I've been able to tell, you have to use Microsoft
>technologies
>>to
>>>   MANAGE these communities, but you do not need them to JOIN and
>>participate.
>>>
>>>   Rick
>>>   ====================================
>>>   Richard Conn, Principal Investigator
>>>   Reuse Tapestry
>>>
>>>   -----Original Message-----
>>>   From: Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)
>>>   [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of jim hopper
>>>   Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2000 9:58 AM
>>>   To: [log in to unmask]
>>>   Subject: Re: R_Conn invites you to join ASE LIBRARY, an MSN Web
>>>   Community
>>>
>>>   thanks for the invite, but either the url below is wrong or its as
>>>   usual with MS windows only.
>>>
>>>   jim
>>>
>>>   At 6:18 AM -0700 7/1/00, User @ MSN Web Communities wrote:
>>>   >R_Conn invites you to join the following MSN Web Community:
>>>   >
>>>   >ASE Library
>>>   >Description: The Ada and Software Engineering (ASE) Library is a
>>>   >free resource to the Software Development (all languages, but
>>>   >particularly Ada) and Software Engineering communities. It contains
>>>   >over 2G bytes of material.
>>>   >
>>>   >R_Conn wrote you this personal note:
>>>   >
>>>   >You are cordially invited to visit and/or join the ASE Library
>>>   >Community on the Microsoft Network. You can keep up to date with
>>>   >events, such as the next ASE CDROM distribution, and participate in
>>>   >the collaboration.
>>>   >
>>>   >
>>>   >
>>>   >JOIN THIS COMMUNITY
>>>   >Interested in becoming a member of this community? Click the link
below
>>to
>>>   ><http://communities.msn.com/ASELibrary/join?iid=>Join Now
>>>   >  http://communities.msn.com/ASELibrary/join?iid=
>>>   >
>>>   >COME BACK SOON
>>>   >Once you have joined the community, you can get back to it at any
>>>   >time by clicking the link below. We suggest you add this link to
>>>   >your favorites.
>>>   ><http://communities.msn.com/ASELibrary>ASE Library
>>>   >  http://communities.msn.com/ASELibrary
>>>   >
>>>   >
>>>   >MORE INFORMATION ABOUT COMMUNITIES
>>>   >An MSN Web Community is a great place to share information, get
>>>   >things done, and have fun online. Your family, friends, club,
>>>   >organization -- any group you can think of -- can all enjoy the
>>   > >benefits of their own MSN Web Community.
>>>   >
>>>   >Learn more about MSN Web Communities or get help on how to join at
our
>>>   ><http://communities.msn.com/help>Help Page
>>>   http://communities.msn.com/help
>>>   >
>>>   >
>>>   >Get your private, free e-mail at
>>>   ><http://www.hotmail.com>http://www.hotmail.com
http://www.hotmail.com
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>>>   >me from ASELibrary>Remove my e-mail address from ASE LIBRARY
>>>
>>>   --
>>>   If you wish to strive for peace of soul then believe;
>>>   if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire.
>>>       -- Friedrich Nietzsche
>>I had a little trouble with Netscape 4.7 on a Sun but I did get it to
>>work.  I got a bunch of 404 errors but it would the find the page on the
>  >next try.  I do have a fast connection so that my have something to do
>>with it.  I'll have to try it from home.
>>
>>I probably doesn't work any better with IE :-)
>>
>>Steve
>
>--
>If you wish to strive for peace of soul then believe;
>if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire.
>     -- Friedrich Nietzsche

--
If you wish to strive for peace of soul then believe;
if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire.
    -- Friedrich Nietzsche