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CHI-WEB  June 2002, Week 3

CHI-WEB June 2002, Week 3

Subject:

SUMMARY: Country selectors: which language to use?

From:

Mary Pat LaBoda <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Tue, 18 Jun 2002 17:38:50 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (248 lines)

Following is the summary to my request for information about which language
should be used for a country selector/dropdown list (i.e., just the list
itself, not the page).  I wondered if I wrote the post in such a way that
people might think that I was referring to a *language* selector instead of
a *country* selector.  (My apologies.) It appears that some interpreted it
that way, so with this clarification, I'd like to open it up for
discussion.

Many thanks to all who responded.

Mary Pat

________________________________________________
Mary Pat LaBoda
eBusiness Department, 3M
[log in to unmask]


--------------
Original post:
--------------
I have searched several places for an answer to my question, including the
CHI-WEB archives and the international-usability eGroup, but have not found
this particular issue addressed:
What language should be used for country dropdown selectors on the country
pages of a large global corporation?  I think the answer may be English,
because it's the (correct me if I'm wrong, please) international business
language, but there are some who contend that it should be in the language
of the country page one happens to be on.  I see several usability issues
with this including, but not limited to, the alphabetic placement of a
country name from country to country.  Or. . .if a person was visiting the
Thailand site and wanted to see what products were offered in, say, France,
how would they be able to navigate to the France site if every country
listed in the dropdown were in Thai?  My opinion is that offering the
country choices in English would be understandable to the greatest number
of people, and therefore be accessible to the most number of visitors. (Of
course, what language that destination country page should be in is a
whole 'nother issue, but I think I can find the answer in the Archives.)

If anyone has conducted studies and gathered some good data, I would surely
appreciate learning what has been discovered on this topic. Anecdotal
information is also welcome!

----------
Responses:
----------

hotmail has a good solution
have one selector for language, which determines the content of the country
selector.  To see it, go to hotmail.com and click on 'sign up'  Change the
language option to update the country selector content.
- Anders Ramsay

```````````````````````````````````````````````````

you should put each menu item in its own language, so english will always
be english and spanish will always be espanol, etc.

this allows the relevant items to be readable to the relevant users.  also
if someone is interested in a country, they probably know that country's
native word for their language.
- Jeremy LaCivita

```````````````````````````````````````````````````

You could well lose business with the English only approach. If your
audience can be expected to have business English then they *may* know the
English names for countries.  In my experience though, even senior
professionals in Europe will not know the English name for every European
country, never mind others (e.g., I once had to translate "Estonia" to
"Estland" before an Austrian colleague knew where it was).

So, with English only, you'll introduce risks.  It depends why they are
selecting countries.  If it's their own country, they have a better chance
of understanding the English word for it, but even this won't be 100%
reliable.
- Gilbert Cockton

```````````````````````````````````````````````````

An excellent question with a nearly obvious answer- English.
The not-so-obvious alternative might be that at the very least, it may be
time for us to create and teach children one global icon- the icon that
supports a label for menu item "Select Language". If anyone out there knows
that such an icon exists- please share it with us. Otherwise- how do we go
about researching and creating this icon?
It would of course, sit next to the label "Language" or "Select Language",
either in English or on Local mirrors, the mirror language.
- Mahmoud El-Darwish

```````````````````````````````````````````````````

I'd say it might depend on the language that the country's
page is in.  I did some checking to see what csc.com does (I didn't work
on the design but was curious) and I have to give them credit (and I have
to admit this is rare for me -- sometimes I feel like a voice crying in
the wilderness when it comes to the company's web design) -- I like how
they've done it.  The country names are in English, and beneath each
country's name is one or more languages, whose names are in the
appropriate languages.  You can see it at
http://www.csc.com/countrysites/.
- Elizabeth Buie

```````````````````````````````````````````````````

ALL of the languages of that country?

There have been several discussions about choosing languages vs. choosing
countries on this list. I think the consensus was, for a country, use a
flag, for a language, use the name of that language *in* that language.
That only sounds simple, in reality it isn't.

A choice between languages is very different from a choice between
countries since there is a many-to-many relationship between languages and
countries. Which implies that if you offer a choice between countries using
language only, a single language won't suffice for very many countries - a
flag is easier since every flag really is unique for a country.
A choice between regions is even more tricky - no single flag applies, and
probably no single language either.

The major problem with using flags for choice between countries and
language name in the target language for choice between languages will be
accessibility though, since flags always rely on images (and in which
language do you write the alt text for that?) and language names often are
rendered as images to get around current still-existing imitations of
browser/platform combinations with respect to Unicode (so again, what do
you use as alt text for those images?)
- Marjolein Katsma

```````````````````````````````````````````````````

Your email appears to confound some key issues.

A potential customer may care what is available for sale in a certain
country while wanting to look at the site in a language having nothing to
do with that country.  There's also a key question of how many countries
stuff is available for sale in vs how many languages are popular in those
countries (among web users).

In his 1999 book on web usability, Jakob Nielsen suggests having languages
listed on the home page in the language's name for itself.  Then on other
pages within the site to have a drop down menu for changing language.  His
rationale is that if users' native language is not that chosen for the home
page, they may never figure out how to find their language.
- Hank Strub

```````````````````````````````````````````````````

I think it depends what kind of content your site has and, in
particular, what is your target audience. If you plan to
communicate/sell something to people who are frequent Internet users,
then, yes, it makes sense to use english for the selector.

If, instead, you plan to reach a much wider audience then you have to
pass the "mom-test" which is, take someone from a non-english speaking
country (or a country where english is not even the standard foreign
language in school), someone who's using the Internet only sporadically,
this audience will need to be presented with a friendly interface in
their language or, at least, see that their language is featured there.

Beside the language issue, however, there's also the country issue. What
if someone chooses "french" (in french language :-), will s/he go to the
French site or to the Belgium site or to the Canadian site, etc etc. This
require a further selection...

The best way to approach this, however is to start providing tech
solutions: a web server (especially if based on a CMS), set properly,
can redirect people using a browser where the locale is French/France to
the French site, thus avoiding the country/language selector.

Normally, in non english country, browsers that are provided with new
computers/OSes have already the locale set for that country/language, so
this is already a step forward to meet the request of the users.
- Gilberto Cutrupi

```````````````````````````````````````````````````

I think Country Selection is different from Language Selection. The
target audiance/users for a country website doesn't necessarily mean ones
local to that country only. If the site offers translations in multiple
languages, then based on the language selection of the user the drop down
can be populated.

If however in specific case the audiance is only the ones local to that
country, speaking specific language only, then the interpretation is that
audiance / primary audiance cannot understand english, and needs an
explicit language selection (no in dropdown, but right on the screen).

Crux really is:
Who the audiance is?
What is the language they understand?
- Alok Jain

```````````````````````````````````````````````````

For selecting a country I recommend the awkward, but what I feel
appropriate dual approach:
United States (United States)
Deutchland (Germany)
[china in chinese characters](China)
[Israel in Hebrew] (Israel)

I think you are following me, no?

This is the example if you are just talking about location. However, most
selections are dealing both with language and region.
English (US)
English (UK)
Spanish (US)
Spanish (ES)
French (FR)
French (CA)
French (BE)

If this is your real set, we have turned toward using this
English (US)
Deutch (DE)
Francais (CA)
Francais (FR)
[Japanese Char] (JP)

The reason the country code stays in character is that it is an ISO
standard abbreviation for that country.
Anyway, I hope this helps you.
- Dave Heller

```````````````````````````````````````````````````

Would it make any sense to have the language in the language that the site
is in.  For example:
Deutsch
English
Francais
Italiano
Thai
For that last one, it says that the Thai site is in English.  The rest are
in their native languages.
- Cliff Anderson

```````````````````````````````````````````````````

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