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CHI-WEB  October 2003, Week 3

CHI-WEB October 2003, Week 3

Subject:

(LONG) SUMMARY : about site maps / IA representation

From:

Mauro Pinheiro <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Mauro Pinheiro <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 21 Oct 2003 02:30:49 -0300

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (267 lines)

Some weeks ago I've asked about how others IA presented their concepts, wich
softwares they were using, and so one.

I've received some responses, some references and many ideas raised from
this. Thanks to all who have contributed.

I guess the main conclusion - somehow obvious - is that there is not an
unique solution to this issue...many representation forms should be used to
present ideas, concepts, depending on who your audience would be. Sometimes
a detailed architecture map - like those tipical Visio files - will be just
fine. Sometimes is better to make a less detailed graphic, keeping focus on
the main aspects of the project.

We here at Globo.com are now developing several basic documents to make IA
easier to understand, specially for marketing guys - it's not that they
don't understand IA...they usually are not on the mood to deal with our
complex map sites...so, we're doing other documents do keep discussion on a
higher level, and leaving the visio-full-of-details architectures, user
paths and other stuff to be discussed with the developers guys. This kind of
documents should remain as normal deliverables during the working process.

About programs used: many have pointed Illustrator as a good choice, if
you're talking about a more conceptual - and beautiful! - IA representation.
Else, the old Visio still would do the job, although some have pointed other
softwares like OmniGraffle (I guess this is MAC only). The cons of using
Illustrator is that is not an intuitive tool, specially if you're not a
designer, who is more familiar with vector based drawing tools.


Here goes some references that appears on the summary and other stuff on
this subject I've found on the web - including a PDF file from Dynamic
Diagrams' folks:
http://www.iawiki.net/IAwiki
http://www.iaslash.org
http://www.eleganthack.com
http://www.lourosenfeld.com
http://www.boxesandarrows.com

http://www.deneba.com
http://iawiki.net/DeliverablesAndArtifacts
http://aifia.org/tools
http://www.omnigroup.com
http://www.adobe.com/illustrator
http://www.powermapper.com  - worth looking!
*[PDF]* http://www.dynamicdiagrams.com/all_pdfs/idj_10_3.pdf - how to draw
DDiagrams maps ;-)


Thanks again for all replies I had. I'd be very pleased if anyone still
interested in dicussing this subject keep in touch.




======================================================
ORIGINAL POST (or at least part of it):
======================================================

I would also like to know how other information architects and designers
present their concepts. What programs, and what kind of graphics and schemes
they use. Usually our "Visio  made" site maps and user flows diagrams works
fine if we're talking to developers...but when we have to discuss with
marketing guys, we have to make something more likely a prototype, as they
are not familiar with information architecture. And that demands a little
more efort, and the discussion about IA become mixed with other issues like
graphic design, branding and so one.




======================================================
REPLIES
======================================================
Mauro,

I've had this same concern for years. Starting about three years ago, I
was looking for models that were better for communication and
presentation. The standard Visio diagrams just weren't cutting it. So,
After several iterations, I developed a model that maps to a user's
mental model much better than the standard Visio sitemap. I've tested
this model quite a bit over the years and get the same reaction time
and time again - "no need to explain - we get it" "these are beautiful"
"this makes total sense" "these are much better than those other
sitemaps we've seen."

Basically, it's an abstracted method for representing the information.
There are regions that contain content and functionality, which is how
we search for things. We aren't necessarily looking for a "page." We're
looking for a piece of content or functionality. This is where
traditional sitemaps fail us.

Have a look at the attached document. Let me know your thoughts.

Oh and these maps are done in Illustrator - DynamicDocuments do their
sitemaps in Illustrator as well. Visio was never meant for doing
sitemaps and diagrams for IA like people are using it today. It was
initially more of a CAD type tool for engineers to map out circuits and
simple quick and dirty diagrams. Our industry needs something much
better than Visio. I've used it before, for years in fact, and still
don't understand why people continue to choose to use it if they have a
choice. But that's another discussion all together.

Enjoy!

Cheers!

Todd R. Warfel
User Experience Architect
MessageFirst | making products easier to use
--------------------------------------
Contact Info
voice:  (607) 339-9640
email:  [log in to unmask]
web:    www.messagefirst.com
aim:    [log in to unmask]



======================================================

Mauro,
Our company has software that provides several interactive graphical
representations of client web and IVR sites.  One of the representations is
similar to a tree or link-node graph.  The graphs enable the user to view
client flows through their system.  Although our software provides that
graphical interface to our clients, the first step in the process is for us
to model their system using a variety of tools.  This model then becomes the
basis for the user's interactive graphical interface.

Patricia
Patricia & Michael Oliver [[log in to unmask]]



======================================================

I do quick sketches and task flow diagrams using OmniGraffle. It's fast
and awesome.

For site maps and architecture diagrams, I've moved to creating those
in Adobe InDesign. These are usually used to sell some aspect of the
design to non-developers, so I take great care in creating
aesthetically pleasing, easy to understand, and representative diagrams.

For these, I never include all of the pages on the website, nor even
every section. I suppose with automated site mapping programs you could
delete or preclude crawling of certain site sections. I still wouldn't
trust the visual representation for what is essentially a sales meeting.

My two cents...

I'm interested to hear what the others do.
--
Austin

Austin Govella
[log in to unmask]



======================================================

From what I've heard (still unsubstantiated), Dynamic Diagrams does
everything in Illustrator, by hand. Illustrator has a fairly steep learning
curve, but once you get near the plateau, it can do some amazing things
fairly quickly.

As far as "how other information architects and designers present their
concepts," well, that's pretty broad. The AIfIA tools project has some
examples -- http://aifia.org/tools/ -- as does iawiki --
http://iawiki.net/DeliverablesAndArtifacts



======================================================

Hello!

Make thumbnails of the node pages of the site map for the marketing guys.
Not just
automatic thumbnails.  Take the time to find significant imagery of those
node pages.

Alain Vaillancourt
Virtual Glyphs Inc.
[log in to unmask]


======================================================

Hi Mauro,

Dynamic Designs builds their sites by hand using Illustrator or
Freehand.  I have used Canvas (www.deneba.com) very successfully. Also,
if you use Macintosh OS X, OmniGraffle from Omni Group is THE cool tool
(http:www.omnigroup.com).

In addition, I highly recommend you read the how-to articles at Boxes
and Arrows (http://www.boxesandarrows.com). Hope this helps,

joe
Joe Sokohl
Sokohl & Associates
----------------------------
http://www.sokohl.com
+1-804-873-6964 (mobile)


======================================================

Hi Mauro Pinheiro

I read that the people at Dynamic Diagrams use Adobe Illustrator to draw
their isometric perspective diagrams.

Pabini Gabriel-Petit
[log in to unmask]



======================================================

Mauro, rather than summarizing to CHIWEB, you should join SIG-IA, an
info arch list that's been running for years. For other discussions of
tools, sitemap styles, and approaches, see

http://www.iaslash.org
http://www.eleganthack.com
http://www.lourosenfeld.com

there is tons of this stuff in the IAWiki
http://www.iawiki.net/IAwiki

CHI-WEB is not primarily used by Information Architects.

andrew
[log in to unmask]



======================================================

I don't think using a design model like what was done by Dynamic
Diagrams & others will help you express your concepts any better. Yes,
it'll look visually better & snazzier but will it get your points across
any better? Most likely not.

In dealing w ingrained govt. employess & introducing them to this brand
new concept of IA diagrams, user flows, & static wireframes in the past,
we had to do a lot of hand holding and really dumb down & break apart
our deliverables, where we would present different parts of a flow or
architecture at a time so that they could wrap their heads around each
bit. We also provided some visual link between each "block" on a diagram
or flow w a wireframe. That also helped them connect the pieces.

//jm

John Malhinha
[log in to unmask]

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April 1998, Week 1
March 1998, Week 5
March 1998, Week 4
March 1998, Week 3
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March 1998, Week 1
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February 1998, Week 1
January 1998, Week 4
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January 1998, Week 2
January 1998, Week 1
December 1997, Week 4
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December 1997, Week 1
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October 1997, Week 3
September 1997, Week 5
September 1997, Week 4
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September 1997, Week 1
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August 1997, Week 2
August 1997, Week 1
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July 1997, Week 3
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June 1997, Week 5
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June 1997, Week 1
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May 1997, Week 3
April 1997, Week 5
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April 1997, Week 3
April 1997, Week 2
April 1997, Week 1
March 1997, Week 4
March 1997, Week 3
March 1997, Week 2
March 1997, Week 1
February 1997, Week 4
February 1997, Week 3
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January 1997, Week 5

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