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Richard Conn <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Richard Conn <[log in to unmask]>
Tue, 18 Jul 2000 23:55:17 -0400
text/plain (140 lines)
Amazing, Jim,

20 years ... did you ever actually TALK to someone who worked for Microsoft?
View them from the inside looking out as opposed to the outside looking in?
And where did you get the idea that I dealt with them for only a couple of
years of going to conferences?  You are certainly a wealth of
The reality is that I've dealt directly with Microsoft R&D and Educational
Products for 8 years; with eBooks for about 1 year.

As to evidence, I presented OBSERVATIONS ... all subject to various forms
of interpretation.  You've obviously chosen not to listen, but that's OK.

The rest of your comments are not worth discussing.  They are just broad
conclusions based from single experiences.  Not valid.

Richard Conn, Principal Investigator
Reuse Tapestry

-----Original Message-----
From: jim hopper [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 11:26 PM
To: Richard Conn; [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: Standards

>Interesting, Jim,
>And what comic book did you get this information from?  Responses
>Richard Conn, Principal Investigator
>Reuse Tapestry

You present no evidence to the contrary of my position  only your
opinion. admitted neither did i, but i submit that my opinion (based
upon my experiences with microsoft) is no more fairy tales than
yours! i have worked as contract programmingas a side job on lots of
commercial programs over 20 years. i didnt just discover the wonders
of microsoft etc in the last year or two. i would submit that i have
at least as clear a vision of what it means to work with and against
microsoft as you do from having spent 20 years actually DOING IT as
opposed to a couple of years of reading microsoft publicity and going
to microsoft events!

specifiically in relation to your points:
i didnt say most programmers, i said "most programmers who write
spreadsheets, word processors, email.  i guess i did use etc that to
you implied all software, that wasnt my intention and you are right i
was unclear.  its those companies who directly compete with microsoft
who complain.  talk to word perfect people or netscape, or novell for

as to your comments about the scads of developers who support
microsoft and are supported by it, i agree there are lots who are
currently happy.  but there are also a lot who used to be partners
who are not happy any longer either, talk to the developers of
stacker for instance.   Another example is the smtp gateway we used
to use at our office in dayton.  it cost a third or less of the
microsoft product.  so microsoft boldly went out bought the company
and canceled it so we had to buy their higher priced one when we
needed to update. Thats INOVATION for you!


>-----Original Message-----
>From: Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of jim hopper
>Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 7:45 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Standards
>At 7:44 AM -0500 7/18/00, Crispen, Bob wrote:
>>If you're intending to claim that Microsoft doesn't document
>>their API thoroughly, I think you'll find a lot of skepticism.
>Only if you don't work on apps that compete with microsoft.  most
>writers of word processors, spreadsheets, email etc complain that
>microsoft uses hidden api calls to get unfair advantages in their
>Where did you get this idea?  MOST?  I guess I missed the complaints
>from the 11,000 developers at Tech Ed 2000 through the noise of
>of all the information going out to help them develop apps for Windows
>platforms.  The hidden API calls were an issue at one time - not now.
>>d, so they do their very best to treat their developers
>again unless microsoft wakes up and decideds it wants that developers
>market, then they run them out of buisness if they cant buy them out.
>I guess the 300 vendors at the conference were all owned by Microsoft.
>When did Microsoft buy IBM, HP, Compaq, and Dell?
>The conference was all about providing software developers from ALL
>with tools to help them do their jobs.  I brought back 40 free CDROMs of
>The conference was also about building bridges ... from meeting the
>teams in person to eating steak/lobster/crab to having parties at places
>Universal Studios to getting prizes like laptops and even a BMW Z3
>The picture of misinformation you paint, Jim, is from the point of view of
>person not a part of this.  Go to one of your local Microsoft events and
>see what is going on.  Your picture might change.
>>Are there "secret" APIs that only Microsoft people know about?
>>Yup.  Would you ever want to use them in an application
>>program?  Nope.  Unless you're developing an AdaScript
>>interpreter for Excel ;-)
>yes if you were writing a competitor for excel!
>If you wish to strive for peace of soul then believe;
>if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire.
>     -- Friedrich Nietzsche

If you wish to strive for peace of soul then believe;
if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire.
    -- Friedrich Nietzsche