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D S Croston-Melling <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
D S Croston-Melling <[log in to unmask]>
Wed, 17 Nov 1999 09:53:22 +0100
Hash: SHA1

I have the impression - and correct me if I am mistaken - that they
are not so much shifting from one language
to another, but changing philosophy in shifting more towards buying
in whatever tools complement their existing toolsets
rather than relying on their own technical expertise to create and
support them them. In doing so they tend more toward
the paradigm of a Tool Shop and away from their own history - and so
they may lose any really good guys they have -
and I'm not speaking of the 3 grey hairs.

Dave SC-M.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Jon Prescott <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 01:48
Subject: comments on certain ada orgs

>  fellow teamers
>after being urged by not just richard riehle but 2 others to share
>some (shall we say less than pleasant) local or bay area info in a
>certain vein it has recently come to my attention that one major
>"ada" software vendor (i.e.,Rational) is the subject of some serious
>concerns(perhaps litigation) concerning continual lack of support.
>the not so big  firm does mainly defense software work in the san
>jose area and another commercially directed ada s/w firm not so far
>away has had not much luck either in getting support from this same
>major vendor..
>last but not least a major aerospace corporation in sunnyvale has
>let it be known that due to an apparently lingering problem with
>support for ada that they are shifting gears to c++ much to the
>disappointment of the current ada community...  seemingly mgmt has
>again dropped the ball away from technological strength and veered
>toward the more financial vein(which will certainly bode less well
>down the pipe for those who bother to watch the store at all).
>   are we being hard on Rational ? Probably but darn it isn't it
> about time
>we pointed out with the above data that there is much room for
>improvement in how they are catering to the  ada worl of late or
>their mgmt completely lose focus....? only time willl tell.
>   disgruntled- you bet !
>>From: AdaWorks <[log in to unmask]>
>>Reply-To: AdaWorks <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: Programmer's Paradise
>>Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 15:28:01 -0800
>>Thanks for your thoughtful response to my polemic.  I started
>>it as a response to Rush Kester's question and lost control
>>as my passion grew more intense.  Then, looking if over after
>>composing it, I toned it down (believe it or not), before
>>launching across the planet.
>>Interesting how many readers have already sent me notes of
>>approbation for some of my key points.
>>I understand the importance of making the profit.  I run a business
>>too. I have run larger businesses in the past, and am clear on
>>the duty of a coporation to its stockholders.
>>That being said, I find it a little frustrating that those of us
>>engaged in the sale of Ada products and services cannot seem to
>>find a way to better publicize our successes.  I find it puzzling
>>that an organization founded to develop and market Ada products
>>has turned its back on the very technology that gave it a start.
>>It is confounding that we are relying on volunteers [you mentioned
>>Hal Hart] for the expansion of our marketplace.
>>At the recent SigAda there plenty enough of naysayers, several of
>>whom took the trouble to buttonhole me and pronounce their
>>conclusion of doom.  There were others who continue to be
>>optimistic because they see new projects in place, observe some
>>on-going support for their efforts, and expect more positive
>>developments in the future.
>>I think there is evidence that some progress is being made even as
>>some organizations make the mistake of converting over to C++. It
>>is probably necessary for them to try C++ so they can feel better
>>about Ada when they discover just how bad it really is for serious
>>software development.  It is a little like the fellow who bangs his
>>head against the wall because it feels so good when he stops.
>>Meanwhile, people who know better need to be taking more
>>responsible positions.  Those who realize the benefits of Ada ought
>>to be guiding their clients, present and future, away from the
>>treacherous waters they have chosen.  Like Ulysses, binding his
>>sailors to the masts to protect them from the seductive songs of
>>deadly Sirens, a responsible enterprise will seek to protect its
>>charges rather than let them follow the music into disaster.
>>Yes, we need to make a profit. Already, we have realized that many
>>of our former Ada clients are asking for C++ classes.  We do not
>>turn down business, so we are providing that training.  We continue
>>to promote Ada even as we teach other languages.  Recently, a
>>couple of students complained in a C++ class that we mentioned Ada
>>too often.  Sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.  They really need to know the
>>differences if they are building DoD software. People's lives
>>depend on this stuff.
>>Absent the support of our compiler publishers, absent a coordinated
>>marketing communications or public relations effort of the ARA, we
>>can do something.  Those of us who are able to write coherent and
>>interesting articles should be doing so.  Those of us who are able
>>to present papers and tutorials should be doing so.  Those of us
>>who are able to get on the program committee of some computer
>>conference should be doing so.  Go into the world and preach where
>>it is needed.
>>It is clear that the ARA is not moving to advance the awareness of
>>the public regarding Ada.  Nothing has happened for a long time
>>that anyone can notice.  The efforts of people such as you, Dr.
>>Conn, have made a huge difference.  We need more of you if Ada is
>>going to get any attention from the rest of the computing
>>Is Rational doing anything to promote Ada?  Not that we can see. Is
>>the ARA doing anything?  There is little evidence of it.  Is any
>>other compiler publisher doing anything beyond promoting their own
>>product?  Perhaps. It does not seem obvious.  All the significant
>>effort, at present, seems to be from volunteers.  I guess we simply
>>need to accept this and recruit more volunteers.
>>Richard Riehle
>>[log in to unmask]
>>AdaWorks Software Engineering
>>Suite 30
>>2555 Park Boulevard
>>Palo Alto, CA 94306
>>(650) 328-1815
>>FAX  328-1112
>Get Your Private, Free Email at

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