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Gary Kephart <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:29:57 -0800
text/plain (80 lines)
Michael Feldman wrote:
> RE: the list of GUIs you mentioned.
> Why is it assumed that Ada 95 is inferior to C or C++ in writing
> programs that use these GUI APIs?
> - Ada 95 bindings exist for them all
> - GUI _builders_ exist for all but the Mac
> - Writing GUI programs is detail-heavy no matter what language you use;
>   the hardest part is understanding the interrelationships among the
>   rather complicated data structures. This is _not_ language-specific.
> I'm curious why you think it is undesirable to get Ada's benefits
> along with GUI slickness. You are following what seems to me an illogical
> logic:

I _don't_ think that it's undesirable. I think it would be _great_.
However, I think that the majority of desktop programmers and their
managers don't agree. Let me restate:

I love Ada.
I love making GUIs.
I'd love a job making desktop applications using Ada.
However, I'm not hearing about those types of jobs, which leads me to
think that they are very rare, unless they're all in the
defense/aerospace sector, in which I'm not looking.

> - I like Ada but not embedded real-time stuff
> - I like GUIs
> - Ada is lousy for GUIs, therefore
> - I can't use Ada
> It's that 3rd line I don;t follow, Gary. Have you actually tried using
> the current Ada 95 stuff to write GUI programs? Have you tried
> ObjectAda Pro? Have you tried CLAW?

Maybe you just misinterpreted something I said, but I never meant to
imply that 3rd line. At least coming from me. What I'm saying is that
maybe Ada _is_ great for using in desktop systems, but only we (Team
Ada) believe it. The majority of the marketplace seems to believe

> >
> [snip]
> > > It's true that Ada has been more heavily used in the sectors you
> > > (and I) mentioned above than in, say, office automation or web
> > > browsers. OTOH, those sectors are broader than some may think.
> >
> > But does broader necessarily translate to more desirable? That, I think,
> > is the problem. I have no proof, mind you, just a gut feeling.
> Well, I think all of us ought to try to look at some facts before relying
> just on "gut feelings." It's true that Ada is used less in the GUI
> world than we'd like, but we increase Ada's usage there one project at
> a time. It doesn;t happen by magic, it happens by doing it and working
> to persuade clueless managers that it's worth doing and cheaper in the
> long run. Market share is NOT the only measure of success or value!

Yeah, and on occassion I've considered doing this. It seems like it
would require me redoing some of my work in Ada. That means taking the
time I use to program C++ right now and spend the same time duplicating
my efforts in Ada. I _have_ thought about it, or at least doing some of
it, but it's been at the bottom of my priority list.

> Mike Feldman


Gary Kephart, Software Engineer  |  Investment Technology Group, Inc
Phone: (213)270-7544             |  400 Corporate Pointe, Suite 855
Fax:   (310)216-0933             |  Culver City, CA 90230
mailto:[log in to unmask]        |
Team Ada member                  |  "The Future of Trading"

Disclaimer: these are my opinions, not ITG's.