Excellent! I met Nell Dale years ago and was mightily impressed. She writes well (the old Pascal text, Dale and Orshalick was a good one). I'm very happy to see your influence in this book! Phil Philip W. Brashear Software Quality Assurance EDS Corporation +1.937.237.4510 [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: John McCormick [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 7:16 PM To: Brashear, Phil; [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: generics in Java The Dale C++ book is a rework of my Ada version. John At 04:00 PM 06/06/2001 -0400, Brashear, Phil wrote: >For CS2: >Main and Savitch, Data Structures and Other Objects Using C++ (Addison >Wesley) >Dale, C++ Plus Data Structures (Jones and Bartlett) > >They're out there! >We're using Dale at the University of Dayton (where I teach part time). > >Phil > >Philip W. Brashear >Software Quality Assurance >EDS Corporation >+1.937.237.4510 >[log in to unmask] > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jack Beidler [mailto:[log in to unmask]] >Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 3:17 PM >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: generics in Java > > >Regarding Terry Westley wrote: > > > Some people should read the literature for design of other languages. > > Or, perhaps they just need to escape the NIH (not invented here) >syndrome... > > > > >From <http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2769630,00.html> > > > > Generics is controversial and has been widely debated inside and >outside of Sun. > > Gosling said the concept is so complicated that no two developers >could agree on > > exactly how it should be implemented. He and Sun Chief Scientist >Bill Joy "got as > > close to physical violence as we've gotten," he said, because Joy >wanted to slip > > Java for two or three years until Sun figured out generics. >However, developers > > converged on an answer about two years ago, and then Sun waited >while the issue > > wended its way through the Java Community Process. Gosling said >reliability is > > critical to Java because it raises developer productivity, >allowing them to > > "spend less of their lives fixing broken applications." > > > > -- > > Terry Westley > > [log in to unmask] > >It is a shame that the idiots in charge of Java don't have enough brains to >look at the >generic/template models of Ada and C++. I am currently working on a couple >of papers with >two of my colleagues on Java's lack of template/generic capabilities. One of >my colleagues is >a C++ guy and we have been comparing Ada generics and C++ templates with an >eye towards how >we might like to see a generic/template feature implemented in Java. > >The issue is much deeper than that. How many students go through an >undergraduate program >with any real software reuse experience (I can see it now, I am about to get >flamed). People >seem to claim as software reuse experience by just throwing any crap they >want into a library >and presto they are doing reuse. > >Granted, there are some pretty good libraries out there in C++ and Java, but >I just did a >survey of CS 2 and CS 7 (Advanced data structures and algorithms) texts >using C++. Would you >believe that I could not find one book that uses C++ templates to >encapsulate the basic data >structures? If one of you know one, let me know. > >Now keep in mind that just about all the Java book for these courses are >"global replaces" of >the various author's C++ books and you can see that we are facing a >generation of programmers >who have been raised on C++ and Java and have no real clue as to how to use >a >generic/template for the construction of reusable software! > >If the software industry is in trouble now, I have a pretty good clue where >it is going to be >in the future as more and more schools dumb down there CS programs. > >Jack Beidler >-- >John (Jack) Beidler, Ph.D., Professor of Computer Science >Computing Sciences Department >University of Scranton >Scranton, PA 18510 >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >Voice: (570)941-7774 FAX: (570)941-4250 >Email: [log in to unmask] >Web: http://www.cs.Scranton.edu/~beidler