I have been following this thread with interest. I believe David's original point that many of the "arguments" for using VB, Delphi, etc., and thus for NOT using Ada, are completely invalidated. (Actually, I think they have been for a long time, but the work David and others have done recently makes this so clear even a C programmer will probably understand. :) There is one key ingredient remaining, however, to get people to use these wonderful tools (and Ada) - getting the word out. Remember, best kept secrets . . . More importantly, the BEST way to "get the word out" is to put together good training courses and get them presented in a forum where practicing and would be "programmers" can readily take advantage of them. I don't have any figures, but I suspect that a fairly high percentage of these practicing "programmers" would never have "cut a line of code", if they hadn't been able to attend a training session that showed them how easy it is to do so much by imitating some good examples. Just my 2 cents worth. sro S. Ron Oliver, semi-retired professor of Computer Science and Computer Engineering. www.csc.calpoly.edu/~sroliver caress Corporation is proud to be the U.S. representative for Top Graph'X, developers of high quality software components, using Ada. For more information, check out www.topgraphx.com.