>Many of the job ads, >and (sadly) many of my friends in industry, ask which >tools the students know. Surely they are wrong and you are right, but nevertheless I understand their position no less than yours. They need some "coordinate system" for their estimates, and those well-known tools provide such a system - although bad, but still without alternatives. > They should be asking how >fast the students can learn the tools and practices in >that workplace, and how willing the students are to >learn them. Yes, but there are no established, well-known and named levels for those qualities - so they do not constitute a usable coordinate system for outsiders (I mean "outsiders" relative to the educational system). In, say, mathematics, the situation is quite different - there *are* well-established and recognized levels of mastering various topics. Alexander Kopilovitch [log in to unmask] Saint-Petersburg Russia