I agree with your assessment, Cathy. Focus on outcomes is a good way to get to the essence of the liberal arts environment. The well-roundedness of our graduates is certainly a key element. I don't think small is necessary for that, but a commitment of a good relationship between the faculty and the students and a dedication to producing a well-rounded, well developed person is important. Boots L N Cassel, Ph.D. Professor and Chair Department of Computing Sciences Villanova University 800 Lancaster Avenue Villanova PA 19085-1699 http://csc.villanova.edu/~cassel 610 519 7341 On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 2:10 PM, Cathy Bareiss <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > I agree that we should not limit it to “small”. I also think that where > the program/department lies is also not a good indicator. There are some > strong liberal arts CS programs (including mine) that reside in a school of > engineering. University structural decisions are made for many different > reasons. > > > > Our definition needs to focus on the goals/outcomes of the programs not > the structures of the institutions. > > > > One thing that comes to my mind that has yet to be discussed is that > *typically* liberal art majors are small enough to allow students to > pursue additional interests (other majors/minors). I might suggest that > the end of the definition (or an area that explains it) says something to > that fact. This type of degree does not focus solely on what makes a > person a “great” professional computer scientist but allows the students to > be more well-rounded and pursue additional areas of interest. > > > > I am not great at “word-smithing”. So instead of suggesting precise > wording, I will keep my comments to general areas that I think might/should > be addressed. I will let others better skilled in that area figure out how > to express the ideas in a concise/clear/etc. language. > > > > Cathy Bareiss > > > > > > *From:* SIGCSE-LIBARTS-COMM [mailto:[log in to unmask]] *On > Behalf Of *Lillian (Boots) Cassel > *Sent:* Monday, March 14, 2016 11:58 AM > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* Re: First Steps for SIGCSE Liberal Arts Committee > > > > Many thanks to Doug and everyone involved in starting this discussion. > > > > With respect to some of the questions that form the core of this message, > I hope we can be as inclusive as possible. I am in the Department of > Computing Sciences in the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences at > Villanova. We are not a small college, and some of the questions seemed > appropriate for small colleges. That is a good question theme, but will > not be for all of us. > > > > When we have visits by parents and possible students, I like to explain > why I think it is a good thing that we are in the College of Liberal Arts > and Sciences, rather than the College of Engineering. We have a strong, > accredited computer science program that brings all the benefits of a > liberal arts education combined with a technical degree. > > > > I am very interested in understanding better the ways that computer > science contributes to and benefits from the liberal arts context. > > > > We have a couple of interesting interdisciplinary activities. One > involves a collaboration between a machine translation course and an > advanced, required, course in French Writing and Stylistics. The two > courses run independently, but meet in adjacent rooms at the same time and > do joint projects. What other examples are there of interesting joint > activities? > > > > Boots > > > L N Cassel, Ph.D. > > Professor and Chair > Department of Computing Sciences > Villanova University > 800 Lancaster Avenue > Villanova PA 19085-1699 > http://csc.villanova.edu/~cassel > > 610 519 7341 > > > > On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Douglas Baldwin <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > Greetings, and welcome (if you haven't already been welcomed) to the > SIGCSE committee on computing education in liberal arts colleges. Thanks to > everyone who came to our gathering at SIGCSE. I was pleasantly surprised at > how big that was (35 - 40 people), and at the enthusiasm the folks there > showed for the committee's job. Alyce Brady took some good notes on the > conversation, which are the basis for this message. > > Much of the conversation was about what the committee might do, and > another theme that kept popping up was the question of just what we will > mean by the phrase "liberal arts." These are basically the first two things > we need to work on in any case, so the first thing I want to do is set the > following agenda for the next couple of months. Please consider yourselves > charged to use this mailing list to discuss your ideas about the following > 2 items: > > 1. What we mean by "liberal arts." There is temporary definition in the > committee's goals and focus statement ( > http://sigcse.org/sigcse/programs/committees/liberal), roughly "liberal > arts college" as a place that emphasizes liberal education -- in the words > of the goals and focus, "a post-secondary institution that emphasizes > education for the breadth of graduates' career, civic, and personal lives, > in contrast to institutions that focus on more narrow preparation (e.g., > for a specific profession)." But this is only one of many definitions > bouncing around. Another I've seen boils down to a college that emphasizes > disciplines in the arts, humanities, and sciences over disciplines in more > professional areas, and another amounts to colleges that fit an > institutional profile of being small, undergraduate, and (usually) private. > We absolutely do *not* have to use the definition from the goals and focus > statement. There's a lot of overlap between definitions and their > implications, but there are also enough differences that if we don't adopt > some statement of what we will mean by the term, we're likely to find > ourselves talking past each other as we get down to the real work. > > 2. We also need to identify a set of issues that we will concentrate on. > Again, the goals and focus statement mentions two, but a lot of others came > up in conversation at SIGCSE. If we have a manageable set of these in place > by, say, mid-June (not at all accidentally, a date that most of us in the > US can equate to "about when my semester/quarter ends," whichever kind of > calendar you use, and that I hope any non-US participants can equate to > some similar calendar milestone) we can use the summer to start gathering > whatever data we need to shape answers. The questions from the goals and > focus statement are > > - Is there a need for an organization that can be the "voice" of liberal > arts colleges in larger discussions of computing education? If so, how > might such an organization be set up, and what can this committee do to > "pass the torch" to it? > > - Is there a need for a network that allows computing faculty at liberal > arts colleges to share struggles, ideas, questions, etc. with each other? > > Some things that were mentioned at SIGCSE, include > > - Should there be a larger set of "exemplar" courses and curricula for > liberal arts, as with ACM/IEEE CS2013, but perhaps only partially tied to > it? Maybe not as formal as the CS2013 exemplars, simply a table of what > courses/subjects different schools include. Even identifying the titles > used for programs and courses would be helpful. > > - Should there be a survey of issues facing liberal arts computing that > departments can use in discussions with administrations? In particular, > what are liberal arts computing programs seeing with enrollments today? > > - In connection with such a survey, do we even know who the "liberal arts > computing" people are? Should we try to systematically identify them? > > - Should there be a liberal arts analog of ABET to "accredit" liberal arts > computing programs (this was explicitly identified as an out-of-the-box, > thinking-at-the-limits, question by the person who posed it) > > - How do we communicate the advantages of teaching computing in the > liberal arts to others? For instance, to graduate students who might be > potential faculty? To potential students for our own programs? > > - Are there things that could be done to help liberal arts schools trying > to start computing programs? > > And finally, moving on from immediate actions, a few other notes from the > SIGCSE gathering: Most important, this is supposed to be a very inclusive > committee. Regardless of what definition of "liberal arts" we end up with, > anyone who is interested in that kind of computing education is welcome to > participate. As of SIGCSE, we had about 80 people subscribed to the mailing > list, and more have joined since -- my guess is that we're at 90 or 95 now. > We should try to get all of us wearing "ask me about liberal arts > computing" ribbons at the next SIGCSE. Speaking of next SIGCSE, it would be > nice for us to have some preliminary report that can be delivered at a > special session or similar. This would be based on discussions this spring > and data gathered over the summer. A final version can include feedback > from SIGCSE 2017 and might appear as a report in Inroads or similar later > in the year. > > Thanks again for joining the committee. Let the conversation begin! > > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the SIGCSE-LIBARTS-COMM list, click the following link: > > http://listserv.acm.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ACMLPX.CGI?SUBED1=SIGCSE-LIBARTS-COMM&A=1 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from the SIGCSE-LIBARTS-COMM list, click the following link: > > http://listserv.acm.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ACMLPX.CGI?SUBED1=SIGCSE-LIBARTS-COMM&A=1 > ############################ To unsubscribe from the SIGCSE-LIBARTS-COMM list: write to: mailto:[log in to unmask] or click the following link: http://listserv.acm.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ACMLPX.CGI?SUBED1=SIGCSE-LIBARTS-COMM&A=1