>But more to the point, the "fun" I am describing is the "fun" of
>unchecked creativity, of reduced keystrokes (readability be damned,
>we're having fun aren't we), ... in short the "fun" of being a "real"
>programmer - as in "Real Programmers only use FORTRAN (Assembly, Machine
>Code, fill in the blank)."

Well said, but I can say it simpler:  There will always be HACKERS in
the world.

And, I fear, the scary thing is that with the computer-IT explosion
the past decade or two, not only are their numbers starting to dwarf
those of us who "pretend" we take the longer-term,
cost-and-quality-based approach which demands discipline and sound
software engineering, but the voices of education and training on our
side are being drowned out by a growing number of hacker mentalities
getting into that business because there's not enough of us to go
around; the software industry grew too fast.  They may teach fine
techniques (I almost said "tricks") that succeed in short terms, but
they're not that principles that you and I and Mike or Mike would

Well, this is one time Darth Vader will not kill off all the Jedi Knights.
We may get outnumbered, but we'll always be a Force.  (At least for 1K
                        -- Hal

PS:  Wow, I almost wrote a whole msg without using the word "Ada."  :-)