Someone made the remark that for project managers only two things matter: shedule and budget. Those things would not matter at all if it wasn't for those other two nasty factors: requirements and deliverables :-) However, in my own experience, the problem is indeed not convincing management, but the programmers. So, how _do_ you convince people who are now making a nice living without unduly exercising themselves to tackle a new language ? Jerry. (One of those managers who would rather be a programmer :-)