? Programming language trade study for the _________
? Addresses the ______ (MAS) and _________ only
? _________ has already determined that they will be using C
? Current candidates are
? Ada 83
? Ada 95
? C
? C++
? A separate study will be performed for _________
Approach/Methodology
? Identify assumptions and relevant data to ______
? Contrast and compare candidate language features
? Survey existing generic language comparative studies
? Review earlier MAS language selection study
? Assess how well each language supports concurrent, real-time object oriented
development
Examine candidate language strengths and weaknesses and the ability to provide
mitigation of each in comparison to other candidates.
? Examine current industry trends particularly in reference to future
supportability
? Catalog and examine local and company wide experience
? Examine staffing considerations, immediate and future
? Choose candidate which has the lowest residual risk
Assumptions and Relevant Data to ____
? The ______ Processor is currently a HP V2500 Convex running HP/UX 11.0
? _______ software will be done in C
? ________ will be done in C++
? There is limited potential for legacy software reuse
? _________ are JOVIAL and Assembly
? translators do not account for language optimization, modern computing
architecture or DIICOE
? embedded RTOS specifics
? _____ is Ada 83, functional decomposition
? moving baseline and different mission makes mapping/reuse difficult
? _____ to be redesigned using object oriented
? methodology to minimize impact of volatile requirements
? Software costing model sensitivities show that language selection has little
impact on cost
? domain experience (18% improvement)
? overall engineering competency (analysts: 29% improvement, programmers: 30%
improvement)
? programming language (5% improvement).
? Legacy _______ systems include:
? ______: FORTRAN on a Cyber
? _____ , ______ & ______: JOVIAL on a Cyber running RTOS
? _____: Ada 83 on a VAX running VMS
? ______, et al: Ada 83 on a HP running Unix
? Programming language vendor base
? Ada 95 (Rational, Green Hills, GNAT, Aonix) $230 million in sales
? flat sales last year
? C/C++ $16 billion in sales, a factor of 70 greater than Ada
? increasing sales last year
And Then There Were Two
? Candidate languages reduced to Ada 95 and C++
? Ada 83 and C eliminated during preliminary analysis
? Neither are Object Oriented
? Vendor tool support for Ada 83 is being phased out in favor of Ada 95
Survey Existing Generic Language Comparative Studies
? A web search revealed few comparisons which included Ada
? The majority of the comparisons concentrated on commercial languages such as
C/C++, Java, Smalltalk, Perl, etc.
One Ada 95 vs. C++ comparison found was the book "Guidelines for Choosing a
Computer Language", P.K. Lawlis (C.J. Kemp Systems, Inc.), 2nd Edition, August
1997
? Recommended Ada 95 due to superior language features
"Guidelines for Choosing a Computer Language" with Regard to _____
? The criteria and ratings established by P. K. Lawlis are somewhat subjective.
With a different viewpoint, values may be reassigned and criteria modified so as
to result in a different language selection.
? address the language domain only and are independent of operating system
capabilities e.g. Under "Concurrency Support", Ada 95 was assigned a rating of
eight while C++ was assigned a zero. Concurrency in C++ is provided by the OS.
- do not take into consideration good rigid software standards practices. We
programmatically tailor via design and coding standards to limit a language's
weaknesses and maximize its strengths. Performed in C++ successfully on
Raytheon's Personal Rapid Transit (PRT) Program.
? do not address future supportability issues
In P. K. Lawlis' Own Words
? From "Is the Answer Always Ada?", Patricia K. Lawlis, Proceedings: Tri-Ada 97
Conference
"When software engineering considerations are factored into the process, a
clearer picture of what is really important in a language choice emerges."
"Ada will rate highly only if it continues to have good support from both
vendors and the educational community and, indeed, only if that support
continues to grow."
Ada and C++ Language Feature Comparison
General Assessment of Language Features
? Either Ada 95 or C++ can successfully be used to implement ______
? Ada 95 successfully used on:
? ______, _______
? C++ successfully used on:
? ____ (safety critical embedded program)
? _____, _______
? more significant usage of C++ at _____, ______ and _______ locations
Generally, technical discriminators between the languages are minor, and there
are no areas that a strength in one does not have a work-around in the other
(discussed further in Advantages/Disadvantages section).
Ada 95 Advantages
? Potential of 6-15% of _______ contributing s/w implemented in Ada 83
? There exists a pool of in-house programmers experienced in writing real-time
radar software in Ada
? ______, _______, _______
? Superior run-time constraint/range checking
? Superior exception handling
? Tends to lessen the capability to "hack" code due to the formalism of the
language
Ada 95 Disadvantages
? Long term future and supportability is questionable
? Ada mandate has been rescinded
? Ada Joint Program Office is no longer funded by the government
? Vendor pool is limited and shrinking
? Ada tool sets tend to lag behind C/C++ releases
? Ada tool sets tend to be more expensive
? Diminishing university base and future availability of Ada trained entry level
engineers.
Because of the marketability of other commercial languages (e. g. C++, Java)
there is a strong motivation for experienced Ada trained engineers to gain
experience with these languages rather than to continue gaining experience in
Ada 95
Ada 95 Disadvantages (continued)
? Performance concerns
? compiler efficiency
? most vendors put emphasis on optimizing C++ compiler first due to greater
industry competition
? run-time constraint/range checking
? when not disabled, performance overhead is added by the compiler
? RTE overhead
? additional layer between application and native OS
? Tends to hinder implementation of fast prototypes due to the formalism of the
language
? Availability of compilers and development tools on next generation CPUs in
question
C++ Advantages
? C++ Advantages
? Much better long term supportability position
? Broader university and vendor/tools support on virtually every platform
? Long term availability of trained engineers
? C/C++ has native compilers and libraries on the HP UX system
? Opportunity for single development tool set since signal processing software
is to be done in C
Many expect desirable Ada 95 features to migrate into the C++ standards over the
next few years, and already has in the cases of
? Overloading of operators
? Ada generics (became C++ templates)
? Exception handling
C++ Disadvantages
? C++ Disadvantages
? No legacy software for ______ is written in C/C++
? offset by higher corporate metric for productivity (approx. 20%)
? Fewer C++ hard real-time programs implemented at Raytheon
? Run-time constraint/range checking must be implemented by the programmer
? Exception handling exists, but is inferior to Ada's
? Tends to allow "hacking" due to the availability of true pointers (C) versus
Ada access types (C++ references)
Can Ada overcome its disadvantages?
? Ada has a much narrower and shrinking vendor base and talent pool than C++
? Staff ______ with Ada trained personnel and offer Ada training to non-Ada
trained professionals and new hires
? Work with the Ada vendors to deal with long term supportability issues
?
Can Ada overcome its disadvantages? (continued)
? Ada has worse performance than C++
Debated and implementation specific, however, many performance issues are design
based and can be avoided through coding standards
Ada vendor resources are limited, and so Ada compilers are not getting the same
amount of energy as is being applied to improving C/C++ compiler code generation
performance, etc.
? Those features that are performance prohibitive need not be used (true in
either language). Ada offenders include:
? Protected sections
? Exception handling recovery
Can C++ overcome its disadvantages?
? C++ has a smaller pool of individuals within Raytheon with real-time radar
software experience than Ada.
? Real-time C/C++ experience does exist in ______ in the ________ area
? _________, portions of ______ (other portions were Ada 95), _______, _______,
____, _____
? Domain knowledge and engineering skills dominates
? Language has a minimal effect in software costing models
? Most programmers know 5-6 languages, and they certainly can learn another and
have a strong motivation to learn C++
Can C++ overcome its disadvantages? (continued)
? C++ has inferior runtime constraint/range checking
? User-supplied checks may prove more efficient (being put only where they make
sense), but require greater thought
? May be placed as conditional compiles
? May be in runtime portion or in classes
? C++ has inferior exception handling (s/w and h/w)
Legacy systems do not use Ada's exception handling for fault tolerance due to
performance impacts and domain requirements; hence, this superior potential has
never been utilized. Therefore C/C++ throw/catch ability is sufficient========================================================================Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:39:52 -0500
Reply-To: Chad Bremmon <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Chad Bremmon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Job Opportunity
X-To: [log in to unmask]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi all . . . I moved.
I'm not with Rational anymore.
I work for Orbital Sciences Corporation in Germantown MD.
I'm back in development. We're actually ramping up on an Ada95 project here and
need some entry to mid level programmers who are interested in programming in
Ada. More senior programmers may also be considered.
Some experience preferred, but if they went to a college that had foundation in
Ada, they would be easily considered.
Please let me know if you know of anybody in the position to change employment.
Thanks,
Chad
========================================================================Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:10:37 -0600
Reply-To: Samuel Mize <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Samuel Mize <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Unconstrained Arrays problem
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> from "Ben
Brosgol" at Feb 5, 99 09:37:09 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Ben Brosgol wrote:
> Rick's message below implies that there is some contradiction between my
> suggestion: ...
> and Steve Deller's observation
I thought so too, at first, but I think he simply meant that there
are two approaches.
Two detail points, which I throw to the list so someone can correct
it if I'm mistaken:
- the indefinite private type that Ben pointed out is (I believe)
new for Ada 95, so if you're working in Ada 83 you'll have to
use one of the other approaches.
- if the type is indefinite, you can't declare an object of that
type. Of course, the full declaration makes it definite inside
the private parts of the package. But you can't have an object
of that type outside the package. This may be a problem or a
feature, depending on exactly what you're trying to do.
Best,
Sam Mize
--
Samuel Mize -- [log in to unmask] (home email) -- Team Ada
Fight Spam: see http://www.cauce.org/ \\\ Smert Spamonam
========================================================================Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 11:34:15 -0500
Reply-To: Ben Brosgol <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ben Brosgol <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Unconstrained Arrays problem
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Samuel Mize wrote:
>Ben Brosgol wrote:
>> Rick's message below implies that there is some contradiction between my
>> suggestion: ...
>> and Steve Deller's observation
>
>I thought so too, at first, but I think he simply meant that there
>are two approaches.
>
>Two detail points, which I throw to the list so someone can correct
>it if I'm mistaken:
>
>- the indefinite private type that Ben pointed out is (I believe)
> new for Ada 95, so if you're working in Ada 83 you'll have to
> use one of the other approaches.
That is correct.
>- if the type is indefinite, you can't declare an object of that
> type.
Not quite. My original example showed how; you simply provide an
initialization with the declaration:
X : T := F(10);
where T is the private type with an unknown discriminant part, and F is a
function delivering a value of that type. This ability to declare
"unconstrained" _variables_, with the constraint obtained from the
initialization, is also new in Ada 95. In Ada 83 this was allowed only for
_constants_.
>Of course, the full declaration makes it definite inside
> the private parts of the package.
I think that what you mean here is that within the package, after the type's
full declaration (as an unconstrained array type) you can simply use index
constraints in declaring variables. Outside the package, since you don't
see the type as an array, you cannot apply index constraints
>But you can't have an object
> of that type outside the package.
Again, not so (see above).
>This may be a problem or a
> feature, depending on exactly what you're trying to do.
>
>Best,
>Sam Mize
Regards,
Ben Brosgol
[log in to unmask]
========================================================================Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 12:50:12 -0500
Reply-To: Tucker Taft <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Tucker Taft <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: AverStar (formerly Intermetrics) Burlington, MA USA
Subject: Re: Another Ada vs. C++ fight (long)
X-To: Wesley Groleau <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Wesley Groleau wrote:
>
> Here's another request for assistance in a battle that looks like it's already
> lost. I unfortunately don't have the time to adequately answer all of the
> misleading (a few are downright false) claims here.
Wesley,
If you would like someone to attend a meeting with the relevant
decision makers to address some of these issues, I would be happy to
travel as necessary to attend and participate.
-Tuck
--
-Tucker Taft [log in to unmask] http://www.averstar.com/~stt/
Technical Director, Distributed IT Solutions (www.averstar.com/tools)
AverStar (formerly Intermetrics, Inc.) Burlington, MA USA
========================================================================Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:52:46 +0100
Reply-To: Jerry van Dijk <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jerry van Dijk <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Another Ada vs. C++ fight (long)
X-To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> from
"Wesley Groleau" at Feb 5, 99 09:37:49 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Wesley Groleau wrote:
> Here's another request for assistance in a battle that looks like it's already
> lost. I unfortunately don't have the time to adequately answer all of the
> misleading (a few are downright false) claims here. Anyone is welcome to throw
> in response to specific items. Please, though, let's not have several reposts
> of the entire presentation just to answer one line. Of particular value are
> quantified empirical evidence.
I do not know if I am the only one, but the attached text was not really
readable...
--
-- Jerry van Dijk | Leiden, Holland
-- Team Ada | [log in to unmask]
-- see http://stad.dsl.nl/~jvandyk
========================================================================Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:04:37 -0600
Reply-To: Pat Rogers <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Pat Rogers <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Book reviews of John Barnes' latest Ada 95 book at amazon.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
As mentioned in earlier posts to comp.lang.ada, John's book has
received only a few positive reviews and a number of very negative
ones at amazon.com. The unfortunate effect is that the summary
"stars" rating -- what one sees initially, without digging -- is IMHO
very misleading and does damage to a fine book.
Several people have indicated on c.l.a. that they had a high regard
for the book, especially the second edition. Let me suggest to
everyone that has both read and enjoyed John's book to go to
www.amazon.com, do a ISBN search on 0201342936, and enter a review.
---
Pat Rogers Training and Consulting in:
http://www.classwide.com Deadline Schedulability Analysis
[log in to unmask] Software Fault Tolerance
(281)648-3165 Real-Time/OO Languages
========================================================================Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:12:32 -0800
Reply-To: "Robert C. Leif, Ph.D." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Robert C. Leif, Ph.D." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Another Ada vs. C++ fight (long)
X-To: Wesley Groleau <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
To: Wesley Groleau et al.
From: Bob Leif, Ph.D.
There are two major disadvantages of C++. 1) The Java advertising machine
will kill it. 2) Raytheon because it is demonstrably negligent in using an
unsafe language, C++, will be liable for punitive damages when the
inevitable catastrophe occurs. This is even stupider than manufacturing
silicon breast implants. I am sorry that the shareholders and employees of
Raytheon are paying the salaries and providing other compensation for a
group of technologically incompetent managers.
The arguments about the choice of language being insignificant are wrong.
The source text is a manufactured product. The same total quality rules
apply to source text and executable code as any other part of a product
where human life is involved.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Wesley Groleau
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 1999 6:38 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Another Ada vs. C++ fight (long)
>
>
>
>
> Here's another request for assistance in a battle that looks like
> it's already
> lost. I unfortunately don't have the time to adequately answer all of the
> misleading (a few are downright false) claims here. Anyone is
> welcome to throw
> in response to specific items. Please, though, let's not have
> several reposts
> of the entire presentation just to answer one line. Of
> particular value are
> quantified empirical evidence.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Programming Language Trade Study
>
> Introduction/Scope
>
========================================================================Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 16:19:12 -0800
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Dave Wood <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Aonix
Subject: Re: Book reviews of John Barnes' latest Ada 95 book at amazon.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
It's interesting that those who know something
about Ada give it 5 stars, and those who know
nothing (generally seem to be students) hate
the book and give it 1 star. Nothing in between.
Looks more like a failure of the professors who
assign a book not intended for students. I recall,
way back in ancient history, having a violently
negative reaction to Wirth's Pascal book (which,
to be fair, was pretty bad.) What they need is
an actual textbook, not a practitioner's book.
-- Dave Wood, Aonix
Pat Rogers wrote:
>
> As mentioned in earlier posts to comp.lang.ada, John's book has
> received only a few positive reviews and a number of very negative
> ones at amazon.com. The unfortunate effect is that the summary
> "stars" rating -- what one sees initially, without digging -- is IMHO
> very misleading and does damage to a fine book.
>
> Several people have indicated on c.l.a. that they had a high regard
> for the book, especially the second edition. Let me suggest to
> everyone that has both read and enjoyed John's book to go to
> www.amazon.com, do a ISBN search on 0201342936, and enter a review.
>
> ---
> Pat Rogers Training and Consulting in:
> http://www.classwide.com Deadline Schedulability Analysis
> [log in to unmask] Software Fault Tolerance
> (281)648-3165 Real-Time/OO Languages
========================================================================Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 08:39:38 +0800
Reply-To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Rick Duley <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Edith Cowan University
Subject: No intent to controversialize
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hey there Teamers,
Please don't get the impression that I was trying to stir controversy with
my report on the answers to my 'unconstrained arrays' problem. There were
two things only on my mind:
1. to thank the people who responded and,
2. to put together the answers for the benefit of others who might have
been interested but had not enquired.
Regards to all
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
______
Rick Duley / \
Edith Cowan University (____/\ )
Perth, Western Australia |___ U?(____
_\L. | \ ___
ECU: +61 (08) 9370 6619 / /"""\ /.-' | |\ |
mob: 0416 365 619 ( / _/u | \___|_)_|
\| \\ / / \_(___ __)
| \\ / / | | |
| ) _/ / ) | |
_\__/.-' /___( | |
I think, _/ __________/ \ | |
Therefore I am... // / ( ) | |
( \__|___\ \______ /__|____|
I Think! \ (___\ |______)_/
\ |\ \ \ /
\ | \__ ) )___/
\ \ )/ /__(
___ | /_//___| \_________
_/ ( / OUuuu \
`----'(____________)
========================================================================Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:44:58 -0800
Reply-To: Matthew Heaney <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Matthew Heaney <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Unconstrained Arrays problem
X-To: Samuel Mize <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: Samuel Mize's message of "Fri, 5 Feb 1999 10:10:37 -0600"
Samuel Mize <[log in to unmask]> writes:
> - if the type is indefinite, you can't declare an object of that
> type.
This is not correct. An indefinite type requires that the object be
initialized, either by copying another object, or invoking a constructor
function:
package P is
type T (<>) is private;
function To_T (I : Integer) return T;
...
end P;
procedure Op (O : T) is
Copy_Of_O : T := O;
begin
or
declare
O : T := To_T (42);
begin
So it is true that (variable or constant) objects of the type can be
declared, outside the package.
> Of course, the full declaration makes it definite inside
> the private parts of the package. But you can't have an object
> of that type outside the package. This may be a problem or a
> feature, depending on exactly what you're trying to do.
You may be confusing this with indefinite types that are also limited.
In that case, what you say is correct.
You can't declare an object of the type, because assignment isn't
available for the type, and so you can't make a copy or call an
initializer.
This is actually a feature of the abstraction, because it allows the
package declaring the type to control creation of all instances of the
type.
For example, in one of my recent posts to the patterns list at the ACM, I
showed how to use this technique to force clients to call a constructor
that returns a pointer to the limited, indefinite type.
Here's an excerpt:
The other change I made was to implement the types using memory
management techniques I described in my post about the Interpreter
pattern. The type hierarchy is now limited and indefinite:
type Root_Equipment (<>) is abstract tagged limited private;
This means clients can't create an Equipment instance without calling a
constructor explicitly. Each type therefore provides an allocator
(deallocator) to create (destroy) instances of the type, as in
function New_Hard_Disk
return Hard_Disk_Access;
procedure Free
(Disk : in out Hard_Disk_Access);
The only way to create a hard disk (say) is to call the hard disk
constructor New_Hard_Disk. Thus, the package controls how instances of
the type are created....
Here's the URL for the ACM patterns archive:
<http://www.acm.org/archives/patterns.html>
========================================================================Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 08:23:48 -0500
Reply-To: "David D. Shochat" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "David D. Shochat" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Another Ada vs. C++ fight (long)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
"Robert C. Leif, Ph.D." wrote:
>
> To: Wesley Groleau et al.
> From: Bob Leif, Ph.D.
>
> There are two major disadvantages of C++. 1) The Java advertising machine
> will kill it. 2) Raytheon because it is demonstrably negligent in using an
> unsafe language, C++, will be liable for punitive damages when the
> inevitable catastrophe occurs. This is even stupider than manufacturing
> silicon breast implants. I am sorry that the shareholders and employees of
> Raytheon are paying the salaries and providing other compensation for a
> group of technologically incompetent managers.
>
I guess I finally need to speak up after a long "lurking" period. I
think a little perspective has to be injected here. Ever since I started
working for Raytheon in 9/97, I have been struck by the high quality of
my management, including technically. It is of course a big company
(especially after merger with Hughes, TI, E-Systems) and I have
visibility only into a small part. But that part is using nothing but
Ada and with full support of management, on several related projects. I
found Wesley's post painful especially realizing we both work for the
same company, but there is a bigger picture which does not all point in
the same direction.
-- David
========================================================================Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 08:34:14 -0500
Reply-To: "David D. Shochat" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "David D. Shochat" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Book reviews of John Barnes' latest Ada 95 book at amazon.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dave Wood wrote:
>
> It's interesting that those who know something
> about Ada give it 5 stars, and those who know
> nothing (generally seem to be students) hate
> the book and give it 1 star. Nothing in between.
>
> Looks more like a failure of the professors who
> assign a book not intended for students. I recall,
> way back in ancient history, having a violently
> negative reaction to Wirth's Pascal book (which,
> to be fair, was pretty bad.) What they need is
> an actual textbook, not a practitioner's book.
>
When I was an Ada instructor back at my previous company I noticed that
people who needed to learn Ada and were free to use whatever book they
preferred all seemed to choose Barnes, and it wasn't the only thing
available. It may be significant that these were people who obviously
did *not* know Ada but were knowledgeable, experienced designers and
programmers in other languages. I also used Barnes to learn from. Sine
no compiler was available, it was helpful that it had worked examples in
the back. My only objection was that I/O was not introduced at the
beginning. This was of course the fairly thin Ada 83 version.
But it could be the case that Barnes is not the best book for
unsophisticated students who are just learning programming in general,
and some of the reviews may be coming from that population.
-- David
========================================================================Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 11:01:19 -0500
Reply-To: Tucker Taft <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Tucker Taft <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Ada vs. C++ FAQ
I took the Ada vs. C++ "trade study" sent out a few days ago,
and tried to turn it into an FAQ for such a comparison. Here
are the results. Totally unbiased, of course ;-).
Comments and (serious) contributions welcomed.
-Tuck
----------------
Q: Don't software costing model sensitivities show that language selection
has little impact on cost?
A: It is true that in some models, varying the programming language has
less effect than variying other parameters. For example:
domain experience (18% improvement)
overall engineering competency (analysts: 29% improvement,
programmers: 30% improvement)
programming language (5% improvement).
However, analyzing these numbers indicates several issues. First,
withing a given organization, domain experience and engineering
competency are relatively fixed. With a given staff in a given
organization, a wise choice of programming language may be
the biggest and most cost-effective lever available.
Secondly, the amount of improvement due to programming language choice
clearly depends on the specific languages considered. If we compare
Modula-2 and TurboPascal, very little effect may be noticed, since both
languages have comparable safety and features. However, if we compare
Ada 95 and C++, the languages differ dramatically in safety and features.
The most basic features of C++ (arrays, pointers, casting) are all
unsafe. C++ provides no support for multithreading or interrupt
handling in the language, and there are no guarantees of thread
safety in implementations of the C++ run-time support, particularly
in the implementation of destructors and exceptions. The basic
features of Ada 95 are all safe, and the language includes built-in
support for multi-threading and interrupt handling with a requirement
for thread-safe runtimes in all validated compilers.
Thirdly, a cost model for traditional waterfall development is
substantially different from a cost model for a more modern,
iterative development process, with interleaved development,
integration, testing, enhancement, requirements analysis, etc.
In the more modern development process, the robustness, capability, and
flexibility of the programming language become more critical.
The more safety and consistency checking built into the language,
the more rapidly errors can be found and fixed, and the more
rapidly enhancements can be made without undermining the consistency
and safety of the overall system. Furthermore, as systems age, even if
they were developed using a waterfall process, maintenance and enhancement
ends up more iterative, and again, the support in the programming language
for safety and consistency checking has a dramatic effect on the
productivity and quality of the maintenance and enhancement process.
Q: Isn't the C/C++ tools market much larger than the Ada tools market?
Doesn't this mean that C++ is a more viable language than Ada
for building real-time systems?
A: The C/C++ tools market is certainly much larger if you include
all PC-targeted tools. However, if you focus just on C++ compilers
that provide thread-safe runtimes, and that have been validated
to some level of conformance with the ISO C++ standard, and
that are designed for use in the real-time systems market,
the size shrinks dramatically. On the other hand, the bulk of the Ada
compiler market is made up of sales of products that provide a thread-safe
runtime, a validation certificate, and support for mission critical,
real-time system development.
The Ada compiler vendor market is strong. Several vendors, such
as ACT and Green Hills, have rapidly growing Ada businesses.
The largest Ada vendor, Rational, is an extremely strong software
company, with Ada as one of their most important product lines.
All the major Ada vendors are focused on the real-time systems
marketplace, and bring extensive expertise to this arena. Most C++ vendors
are focused on the desktop market, and generally have little or
no expertise in the real-time systems arena.
Q: Are there any comparisons which show the relative strengths
of Ada and C/C++?
A: Unfortunately, there are very few "scientific" comparisons of
any sort that compare programming language benefits, in use in
real projects.
One company that publishes records of language productivity and
error rates is Software Productivity Research. Their most recent
records indicate that Smalltalk has the lowest error rates in
the desktop arena, and Ada 95 has the lowest error rates
in the real-time systems arena. An excellent, if somewhat dated,
paper comparing Ada 83 and C was written by Steve Ziegler, formerly
of Rational. This paper was based on bug reports and bug-fix times
recorded over several years on tools written in C and Ada 83.
The evidence showed a striking difference in bug rates and bug-fix times,
with the tools written in Ada having much lower bug rates, and
much shorter bug-fix times.
Q: Aren't Ada 95 and C++ similar in capability?
A: It is true that both languages support both object-oriented programming
as well as more low-level programming capabilities. However, Ada 95
provides many more features to support the development of real-time
critical systems. For example, the following Ada 95 real-time control
features are not provided as part of C++:
1) Portable multithreaded language features, with at least
30 real-time priority levels
2) Thread-safe runtimes, including exception handling and
destructors/finalization
3) Uniform model for interrupt handling support and control
4) Portable bit-level control of representation
5) Packed arrays, with 1, 2, 4, or 8 bits per element.
6) Delays based on both time-of-day and a real-time clock
7) Compiler-provided routines for serializing data types as part
of remote procedure calls or I/O, as well as ability for
user to substitute their own.
Furthermore, these capabilities are available in a portable way,
both on top of off-the-shelf RTOS's (such as VxWorks) as well as
on "bare" machines.
In the area of safety critical systems, Ada 95 provides significantly
more support for building certifiable systems more cost-effectively:
1) Several Ada vendors provide certifiable run-times, including
all documentation required by organizations like the FAA
or the NRC.
2) Because the Ada user can define their own distinct numeric types and
subranges, array types, and pointer types, the compiler can
perform many more compile-time consistency checks. This
can dramatically reduce the static analysis time for a large
safety-critical system.
3) All of the basic features of Ada are safe. The unsafe features
are available only through highly visible unchecked programming
features, which can be localized or restricted as desired to
reduce the certification effort. In C/C++, the basic features
(arrays, pointers, casts) are all unsafe, making it much more
expensive to identify and certify all uses of potentially unsafe
constructs.
4) Commercial tools are available for further automating the
certification process (e.g. the SPARK toolset from Praxis, Ltd.)
5) Ada 95 compilers can automatically enforce project-specific
restrictions specified using the pragma "Restrictions."
Q: What about the future availability of Ada compilers, especially
on "new" chips that are designed in the future?
A: The availability of Ada compilers used to lag behind
behind that of C. However, because of changes in the
technology underlying Ada compilers, that is no longer a significant
problem. In particular, a number of Ada 95 compilers are now based
on optimization, code-generation, and run-time technology that is
shared with C and C++ compilers. For example, the GNAT Ada 95 compiler
makes use of the GCC C-compiler optimizer, back end, and gdb debugger.
In fact, the primary maintainer of the GCC technology is now an employee of
ACT, the company that developed and maintains GNAT. As another
example, the Green Hills Ada 95 technology shares optimizer,
code generator, and debugger with their C/C++/Fortran product line.
Finally, AverStar has just announced a prevalidated Ada 95 compiler
that uses optimized ANSI/ISO C as its intermediate representation,
an Ada run-time built on top of a standard ANSI/ISO C run-time, and
generates debugging information that allows C debuggers to debug
at the Ada level.
With these various options, an Ada 95 compiler for any new chip
will be available in the same time frame as any C compiler for the chip.
Augmenting this sharing of technology with C compilers are
Ada 95 compilers that generate Java byte code files as their
output (e.g. AppletMagic and jGNAT), and include a run-time built on
the standard Java run-time classes. This means that Ada 95 can also
be used in environments where Java virtual machines, or Java
"just-in-time" compilers are available.
Q: Aren't Ada compilers big and slow, and what about the quality of
the generated code?
A: These days, modern Ada 95 compilers run as fast or faster than
compilers for other languages. This is particularly apparent when
compared with C or C++ compilers attempting to compile very large systems.
Separate compilation in C/C++ is based on the lexical-level "#include"
model. This poses a real challenge for avoiding having to repeatedly
read include files in a single execution of the compiler. Kludgey
and non-portable "pre-compiled header" facilities are provided by
some C/C++ compilers to address this performance problem. This
is not a problem for Ada compilers because separate compilation
is based on a semantic-level module importation. There is never
a need to read the same spec more than once in the execution of
an Ada 95 compiler.
Many Ada 95 compilers also have a simplified program library
model that is strictly source-based, eliminating the need for
any large disk-based program library.
Because of changes in the underlying technology, Ada 95 compilers
now generate code as good or better than C or C++ for the same
construct. Because of reduced aliasing concerns, optimizers
can be more aggressive with Ada programs than C programs. Redundant
run-time checks are eliminated by the optimizers built into many
Ada compilers, and of course all run-time checks can be suppressed
program-wide, or in specific modules, with the use of a pragma.
Q: What happens if I don't have enough Ada programmers for my team?
Can my programmers learn on the job? Is Ada being taught in
colleges? Where can I find Ada mentoring?
A: Many companies find that experienced programmers can learn
Ada on the job given a modest amount of mentoring. It turns
out that the Ada compiler itself is an excellent teaching tool,
because the language was carefully human-engineered to allow the
compiler to catch most "silly" errors, while the extensive compile-time
and run-time consistency checks provide guidance on semantic-level
correctness.
Ada is one of the most widely taught languages in colleges. Because
of its Pascal heritage, its excellent human-engineering, and its
support for software engineering principles, it has emerged as a
natural step up for colleges that have taught Pascal in the past.
In a recent survey of colleges using various languages for teaching
programming, those using Ada and Scheme were clearly the most
satisfied with their languages as teaching tools.
Ada mentoring is available from a number of sources. Ada has
an active newsgroup (comp.lang.ada), several extensive web-sites
(www.adaic.org, www.adahome.com), an active user group
(www.acm.org/SIGAda), and a vendor consortium (www.adaresource.org).
Any one of these can supply information on tools and services
available for the Ada community.
Q: Hasn't C++ already incorporated all the good features that Ada has?
A: C++ has some of the same features as Ada, however the features
in C++ are generally less safe, suffer from poor human-engineering,
emphasize writability over readability, or involve more hidden
overhead. It is interesting to see C++-like languages like Java and
Embedded C++ appearing to try to overcome some of the unsafety
and inefficiency of C++. Nevertheless, none of these C++ spinoffs
fully address the fundamentally poor human engineering of C-based
languages, with "=" vs. "==" confusion, missing "break"s, misplaced
"const"s, missing "&"s, arrays indexable by any arbitrary integer or
enum type, no overflow detection, etc.
========================================================================Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 15:58:08 -0600
Reply-To: Pat Rogers <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Pat Rogers <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Book reviews of John Barnes' latest Ada 95 book at amazon.com
X-To: "David D. Shochat" <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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>But it could be the case that Barnes is not the best book for
>unsophisticated students who are just learning programming in
general,
>and some of the reviews may be coming from that population.
I suspect the negative reviews are indeed coming from that source,
given that one confused Pascal's triangle with the programming
language Pascal (if I understood the review correctly).
The Barnes book is indeed intended for those with programming
experience, as indicated in the Preface. The probably didn't read it.
In any case, to those that like it -- say so at amazon.com!
pat rogers
========================================================================Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 16:01:56 -0600
Reply-To: Pat Rogers <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Pat Rogers <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Book reviews of John Barnes' latest Ada 95 book at amazon.com
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>It's interesting that those who know something
>about Ada give it 5 stars, and those who know
>nothing (generally seem to be students) hate
>the book and give it 1 star. Nothing in between.
Probably. The Preface indicates that it isn't intended for those that
know nothing about programming, but perhaps it should be said on the
back cover! In any case, I suggest that those of us that like the
book say so at amazon.com!
pat rogers
[log in to unmask]
========================================================================Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 23:51:30 +0100
Reply-To: Jerry van Dijk <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jerry van Dijk <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Ada vs. C++ FAQ
X-To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> from "Tucker Taft"
at Feb 6, 99 11:01:19 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Tucker Taft wrote:
> I took the Ada vs. C++ "trade study" sent out a few days ago,
> and tried to turn it into an FAQ for such a comparison. Here
> are the results. Totally unbiased, of course ;-).
Taking the risk of repeating myself, once again I have to conclude
that Ada is only an option for embedded or realtime systems.
Well, maybe that is the truth, and I should pick up Java again.
--
-- Jerry van Dijk | Leiden, Holland
-- Team Ada | [log in to unmask]
-- see http://stad.dsl.nl/~jvandyk
========================================================================Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 08:58:16 -0800
Reply-To: "Robert C. Leif, Ph.D." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Robert C. Leif, Ph.D." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Ada vs. C++ FAQ
X-To: Jerry van Dijk <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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To: Jerry van Dijk et al.
From: Bob Leif, Ph.D.
I suspect that given the broadest definition, most software has "embedded or
real-time" characteristics. For instance, even Microsoft Word 97 has
background spelling and grammar checkers. Virtually all medical devices,
electronic instrument systems, ATMs, etc. have embedded characteristics.
Many of these devices normally require an "operating system" to store data.
Even an Ada compiler could be a real-time program. Although our present Ada
compilers do not appear to employ Ada real-time operations, it requires
minimal imagination to see that a background syntax checker similar to
(hopefully smarter than) Microsoft Word's speller and grammar checkers
should be included in the next generation of Ada environments. If protected
types are considered as real-time entities, then all of the rows of database
tables would be considered real-time objects.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Jerry van Dijk
> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 1999 2:52 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Ada vs. C++ FAQ
>
>
> Tucker Taft wrote:
>
> > I took the Ada vs. C++ "trade study" sent out a few days ago,
> > and tried to turn it into an FAQ for such a comparison. Here
> > are the results. Totally unbiased, of course ;-).
>
> Taking the risk of repeating myself, once again I have to conclude
> that Ada is only an option for embedded or realtime systems.
>
> Well, maybe that is the truth, and I should pick up Java again.
>
> --
> -- Jerry van Dijk | Leiden, Holland
> -- Team Ada | [log in to unmask]
> -- see http://stad.dsl.nl/~jvandyk
>
========================================================================Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 12:54:17 -0500
Reply-To: Tucker Taft <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Tucker Taft <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Ada vs. C++ FAQ
X-To: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask]
> ...
>
> > I took the Ada vs. C++ "trade study" sent out a few days ago,
> > and tried to turn it into an FAQ for such a comparison. Here
> > are the results. Totally unbiased, of course ;-).
>
> Taking the risk of repeating myself, once again I have to conclude
> that Ada is only an option for embedded or realtime systems.
Because I believe Ada is particularly good for realtime and embedded
systems should not be construed as meaning it is bad for other
domains. However, one must generally pick one battle to fight at a time.
> Well, maybe that is the truth, and I should pick up Java again.
Java provides only a small improvement over C++, and that improvement
is almost exclusively one at run-time. Java still has much of the
poor human engineering inherited from C++ and thence from C.
Ada clearly provides an order of magnitude more compile-time checking
than Java, and the careful human-engineering that allows the compiler
to catch many more "silly" errors before they make it to run-time.
However, the primary target of my FAQ is the big engineering companies
like Raytheon, who need to understand how poor is C++ as a fit for
their needs in the mission critical, embedded, and real-time arenas.
I certainly am not trying to imply that C++ is a great fit for other
domains.
Presuming you believe Ada is a great fit for your domain of interest,
feel free to create a new FAQ targeted to that domain. I am probably
not much of an expert in your domain, and hence would not be a great
spokesperson for it.
> -- Jerry van Dijk | Leiden, Holland
> -- Team Ada | [log in to unmask]
> -- see http://stad.dsl.nl/~jvandyk
>
-Tuck
========================================================================Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 13:08:47 EST
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Another Ada vs. C++ fight (long)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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[log in to unmask] (David D. Shochat) wrote:
>I guess I finally need to speak up after a long "lurking" period. I
>think a little perspective has to be injected here. Ever since I started
>working for Raytheon in 9/97, I have been struck by the high quality of
>my management, including technically. It is of course a big company
>(especially after merger with Hughes, TI, E-Systems) and I have
>visibility only into a small part. But that part is using nothing but
>Ada and with full support of management, on several related projects. I
>found Wesley's post painful especially realizing we both work for the
>same company, but there is a bigger picture which does not all point in
>the same direction.
A "mandate" from company headquarters might not favor Ada, so look
at the diverse situation as an opportunity to compare results from
two different approaches.
Presuming your (newly formed:-) company has excellent people doing
the C work, the engineering "results" could turn out beyond reproach.
If so, however, the financial "results" might be otherwise in terms
of the degree of effort to get the engineering correct.
========================================================================Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 01:47:00 +0100
Reply-To: Jerry van Dijk <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jerry van Dijk <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Ada vs. C++ FAQ
X-To: Tucker Taft <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> from "Tucker Taft"
at Feb 7, 99 12:54:17 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Tucker Taft wrote:
> Because I believe Ada is particularly good for realtime and embedded
> systems should not be construed as meaning it is bad for other
> domains. However, one must generally pick one battle to fight at a time.
Yep, we all know Ada's strenght in this area. What is worrysome, is that
it seems Ada is now also on the defensive here.
> Presuming you believe Ada is a great fit for your domain of interest,
> feel free to create a new FAQ targeted to that domain. I am probably
> not much of an expert in your domain, and hence would not be a great
> spokesperson for it.
Well, currently I have hardly time to eat (really!) but I will make
such an attempt.
--
-- Jerry van Dijk | Leiden, Holland
-- Team Ada | [log in to unmask]
-- see http://stad.dsl.nl/~jvandyk
========================================================================Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 08:37:48 -0500
Reply-To: "W. Wesley Groleau x4923" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "W. Wesley Groleau x4923" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Unconstrained Arrays problem
> - if the type is indefinite, you can't declare an object of that
> type. Of course, the full declaration makes it definite inside
> the private parts of the package. But you can't have an object
> of that type outside the package. This may be a problem or a
> feature, depending on exactly what you're trying to do.
You may want it in the private part to make it common to all child units.
But you could just as easily put it in a private child and have the other
child units with it. But if you can't have an object of that type outside
the package, is there any point in having the type visible?
========================================================================Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:00:28 -0500
Reply-To: "W. Wesley Groleau x4923" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "W. Wesley Groleau x4923" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Another Ada vs. C++ fight (long)
X-To: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask]
> From: Bob Leif, Ph.D.
>
> There are two major disadvantages of C++. 1) The Java advertising machine
> will kill it. 2) Raytheon because it is demonstrably negligent in using an
> unsafe language, C++, will be liable for punitive damages when the
> inevitable catastrophe occurs. This is even stupider than manufacturing
> silicon breast implants. I am sorry that the shareholders and employees of
> Raytheon are paying the salaries and providing other compensation for a
> group of technologically incompetent managers.
The "trade study" I posted was not written by anyone at my site. I
received it from someone in another state, and was very careful to censor
anything that could identify the originating group. Please do not apply
the Raytheon name to this rubbish.
========================================================================Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:16:49 -0600
Reply-To: Samuel Mize <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Samuel Mize <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Unconstrained Arrays problem
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> from "W.
Wesley Groleau x4923" at Feb 8, 99 08:37:48 am
MIME-Version: 1.0
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W. Wesley Groleau x4923 wrote:
>
> > - if the type is indefinite, you can't declare an object of that
> > type. Of course, the full declaration makes it definite inside
> > the private parts of the package. But you can't have an object
> > of that type outside the package. This may be a problem or a
> > feature, depending on exactly what you're trying to do.
>
> You may want it in the private part to make it common to all child units.
> But you could just as easily put it in a private child and have the other
> child units with it. But if you can't have an object of that type outside
> the package, is there any point in having the type visible?
Several later messages point out that you can declare one with an
initializer.
Aside from that, having it visible allows you to use it as a
parameter. So a user program could get an item of this type
from a producer, modify it with procedures or extract data from
it with functions.
Best,
Sam Mize
--
Samuel Mize -- [log in to unmask] (home email) -- Team Ada
Fight Spam: see http://www.cauce.org/ \\\ Smert Spamonam
========================================================================Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 08:12:46 -0800
Reply-To: "Robert C. Leif, Ph.D." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Robert C. Leif, Ph.D." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Another Ada vs. C++ fight (long)
X-To: "W. Wesley Groleau x4923" <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
To: Wesley Groleau et al.
From: Bob Leif, Ph.D.
Please see the change below; and I am happy that I do NOT have to
immediately dispose of my stock in Raytheon. Please let me know if Raytheon
actually does use C++ for something involving large numbers of human lives.
Sixty minutes last night (Sunday) had a section on General Motors and
station-wagon gas tanks. I believe one settlement was for over $30,000,000.
Life critical applications in C++ are a malpractice lawyer's dream
come-true.
I might add that 99% of the employees at company can be completely virtuous,
professional etc. and there still can be a small group who can cause a
disaster. Please look at N. G. Leveson, Safeware, System Safety and
Computers, Addison-Wesley, Reading, MA 412-413, 1995. The majority of the
employees of most of the organizations that suffered the catastrophes
described in the Safeware appendices were probably competent and careful
individuals. I do not believe that any organization has successfully
employed in the defense of a suit for damages the argument that the other
operations of the organization were safe. It only takes a small group of
reckless or uninformed individuals to create a catastrophe. The one
reassuring fact from Safeware is that none of the catastrophes described
involved a single coding error.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of W. Wesley Groleau x4923
> Sent: Monday, February 08, 1999 6:00 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Another Ada vs. C++ fight (long)
>
>
From: Bob Leif, Ph.D.
Revised version
There are two major disadvantages of C++. 1) The Java advertising machine
will kill it.
2) Any company because it is demonstrably negligent in using an unsafe
language, C++, will run a very significant risk for incurring punitive
damages when the inevitable catastrophe occurs. This is even stupider than
manufacturing silicon breast implants. I am sorry that the shareholders and
employees of companies are paying the salaries and providing other
compensation for a group of technologically incompetent managers.
Unfortunately, Dilbert is factual.
>
> The "trade study" I posted was not written by anyone at my site. I
> received it from someone in another state, and was very careful to censor
> anything that could identify the originating group. Please do not apply
> the Raytheon name to this rubbish.
>
========================================================================Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:34:30 -0800
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Dave Wood <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Aonix
Subject: Re: Book reviews of John Barnes' latest Ada 95 book at amazon.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Yes, I agree. I don't think knowledge of Ada is
required, but a basic practitioner's understanding
of programming is probably the differentiating
factor.
I've submitted my five stars already.
-- Dave
Pat Rogers wrote:
>
> >It's interesting that those who know something
> >about Ada give it 5 stars, and those who know
> >nothing (generally seem to be students) hate
> >the book and give it 1 star. Nothing in between.
>
> Probably. The Preface indicates that it isn't intended for those that
> know nothing about programming, but perhaps it should be said on the
> back cover! In any case, I suggest that those of us that like the
> book say so at amazon.com!
========================================================================Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:20:52 -0500
Reply-To: Mike Kamrad <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mike Kamrad <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: change of address...
X-To: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
[log in to unmask], [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
[log in to unmask], [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
[log in to unmask], [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
[log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
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[log in to unmask], [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask],
[log in to unmask], [log in to unmask]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear friends,
Well, it's nearly spring and it's time again for a change...I now work for
Top Layer Networks, Inc...
...no, I didn't change jobs (not again...;->)...my company decided to
change its name from BlazeNet to Top Layer Networks, Inc. for various legal
and marketing reasons. Actually, I think someone in marketing wanted a new
slogan. We also have moved to a new location and all the particulars about
the new location can be found in my signature below.
Finally, we are into beta testing our first product the AppSwitch 2000,
when we delivered it to Fitchburg State College last week. And they
promptly put the AppSwitch in their network, connecting 435 computers
(yikes!) ...and it worked fine -- at least so far. With a little modesty,
we only slipped two weeks in a six-month schedule, which included the
unplanned development of our own runtime executive. No wonder I feel like
I have no life.
Just thought you should know...m
ps: Please forgive the replication of this message, as some of you appear
on several mailing lists I maintain.
+==============================================================+
| Mike Kamrad "senior" Engineer |
| |
| Top Layer Networks, Inc. "Layers Above the Rest" |
| |
| 2400 Computer Drive Tel: (508) 870-1300 x139 |
| Westboro, MA 01581 Fax: (508) 870-9797 |
| [log in to unmask] Web: www.TopLayer.com |
+==============================================================+
========================================================================Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:23:53 -0500
Reply-To: Mike Kamrad <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mike Kamrad <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: phone number for Roger Racine...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I apologize for burdening this mailing list with this request but all other
web-based approaches didn't work.
Does anyone have either the office number or email address for Roger Racine
of Draper Labs? Thanks...m
+==============================================================+
| Mike Kamrad "senior" Engineer |
| |
| Top Layer Networks, Inc. "Layers Above the Rest" |
| |
| 2400 Computer Drive Tel: (508) 870-1300 x139 |
| Westborough, MA 01581 Fax: (508) 870-9797 |
| [log in to unmask] Web: www.TopLayer.com |
+==============================================================+
========================================================================Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:28:17 -0800
Reply-To: "Robert C. Leif, Ph.D." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Robert C. Leif, Ph.D." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: SAN DIEGO ACM SIGAda February Meeting
X-To: Ada programming language <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
FROM: Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
Chair San Diego ACM SigAda
TO: San Diego ACM SigAda Members and Other Interested Parties
ANNOUNCEMENT: SAN DIEGO ACM SIGAda FEBRUARY MEETING
Today's Date: 9 February 1999
SPEAKER: Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
Vice President of Ada_Med, a Division of Newport Instruments
SUBJECT: "Commercial Prospects for Ada"
Meeting Date: Wednesday 24 February, 1998
TIME: 6:30 PM Pizza ($5.00) and a chance to network and meet the experts.
Free Pizza to the first 3 individuals who can demonstrate a year 2000 bug in
real, pre-existing Ada code. At present I have never had to make good on
this offer.
Lecture starts promptly at 7:00 PM
DURATION: About 45 Minutes
PLACE: Aonix
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
ABSTRACT:
Open Source is the new buzz word. Many of the present incarnations of Open
Source have a major defect. The creators of the software work for free. Ada
technology besides providing the best choice for creating portable,
reliable, object-oriented software, now has the ability to permit the
profits from software produced by many authors to be equitably distributed.
The Ada Semantic Interface Specification permits software development
systems to produce reports describing the contributions of individual
programmers and reusable libraries to a project. The bottom line is that
software engineers can stop working for free and start collecting royalties
on their work!
Keywords:
Open Source, Royalties, Object Oriented Programming, OOP, Ada, Ada 95, ASIS.
Speaker Brief Biography:
Robert C. Leif, Ph.D. is Vice President of Newport Instruments and Chair San
Diego SigAda. Since the early 1970's, Robert and his wife and partner,
Suzanne, (President of Newport Instruments) have collaborated on the
development of computer based data acquisition and control systems for
scientific and medical instruments. Robert was Corporate Fellow at Coulter
Corp. and Professor of Biomedical Engineering at the University of Miami. He
and Suzanne were the first to publish the benefits of the use of Ada for
medical devices and were responsible for the use of Ada at Coulter Corp.
Robert organized and chaired the first How to Expedite the Commercial Use of
Ada Workshop at the SIGAda '98 Meeting.
Robert, who is a chemist by training (Ph.D. Caltech. 1964), has published 74
papers, edited 5 books, and has been granted 9 patents. His major interest
is analytical cytology clinical laboratory systems design and development.
----------------------------------------------------------
Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.
Newport Instruments
Tel. & Fax (619)582-0437
e-mail [log in to unmask]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please RSVP Robert C. Leif, by e-mail, if you wish to join the preprogram
pizza meal ($5.00 per person).
RSVP Tel. & Fax. Robert C. Leif (San Diego ACM SIGAda Chair) (619)
582-0437 (Voice and FAX), e-mail [log in to unmask] (Robert C. Leif, Ph.D.).
Please include the number of individuals desiring pizza, any special
requirements, your name, telephone number and/or e-mail number when
responding by telephone, Fax, or E-mail. Please Include the Words Pizza or
SigAda in the Subject line of your e-mail.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Directions:
Directions to Aonix:
1. Take 805 to Governor Drive exit.
2. From Governor Drive, make left at first light, to Greenwich Drive.
3. Take first right, to Shoreham Place.
4. Proceed to cul-de-sac - 5040 Shoreham Place.
5040 Shoreham Place San Diego, CA 92122
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are not on this distribution and wish to receive these announcements,
please send your e-mail address to [log in to unmask]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert C. Leif, Ph.D., PMIAC,
Vice President & Research Director
Ada_Med, a Division of Newport Instruments
Tel. & Fax (619) 582-0437
[log in to unmask]
========================================================================Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 18:17:16 +0700
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jaja Triharja <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: SDF-AE
Subject: Helps Confirmation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi,
Can I get some hlep here ?
Thanks,
M.Suryanata
[log in to unmask]
========================================================================Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:03:17 -0500
Reply-To: Mike Brenner <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mike Brenner <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: none
Subject: Re: Helps Confirmation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Welcome to Team-Ada, Indonesia. What help would you like?
Are you using the Ada computer programming language?
Mike
Jaja Triharja wrote:
>
> Hi,
> Can I get some hlep here ?
>
> Thanks,
> M.Suryanata
> [log in to unmask]
========================================================================Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 21:25:06 -0500
Reply-To: "Richard L. Conn" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Richard L. Conn" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: PAL activity continues to be high
X-To: Team Ada <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi, Everyone,
I checked the PAL a couple of weeks ago (end of month),
and it is continuing to show high levels of activity.
58,164 files were transferred from the main PAL
site in Saint Louis. This does not count distribution
by CDROM and from the other sites.
I'd like to thank Mike Feldman at GWU for his
support of the PAL (which makes this report possible)
and Steve Weise and Nadeem Bari of WUSTL for their
continued sponsorship of the PAL. I'd also like to
thank Bob Bruce, Christopher Mann, and others at
Walnut Creek CDROM for their mirror of the PAL and
the CDROM production support.
Rick
---------------------------------------
Richard Conn, ASE, PAL, and SDE Manager
http://xenadu.home.mindspring.com/
========================================================================Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 19:00:37 -0000
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Bill Taylor <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Anyone heard of directive D/DCISS(C)/A2/2/14?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
If anyone has heard of directive D/DCISS(C)/A2/2/14 regarding the
maintenance of Ada compilers, I'd love to hear from them.
regards
Bill Taylor
[log in to unmask]
========================================================================Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:59:50 -0500
Reply-To: "W. Wesley Groleau x4923" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "W. Wesley Groleau x4923" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Natural Ada-Base
X-To: [log in to unmask]
> I am emailing you for information and advice. I am a recruiter in the
> Columbus, OH area and we need an Ada programmer. My research on the
> internet has only turned up a handful of companies using the language.
> If you are not interested in a new position do you know of someone who
> is? Could you point me in the right direction? We need at least
> three years of experience, are willing to relocate, and our salary
> range is 45K - 85K per year pending on experinece.
Re "my research ... has only turned up a handful of companies
using the language":
1. If "the language" is Ada, try
http://excitesearch.netscape.com/search.gw?lk=excite_netcenter_us&searcha+programming+language
2. If the language is AdaBase, try the want ads of any major metropolitan
newspaper. Has the language has died out? When I was unemployed in
1995, there were ads for it everywhere I looked.
Re: "we need an Ada programmer" under the subject line "Natural Ada-Base":
AdaBase/Natural (note spelling) and Ada have very little in common.
========================================================================Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:24:01 -0500
Reply-To: Mike Kamrad <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mike Kamrad <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: phone call to me...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Would the person from Ohio who got my name off this list and left a phone
message on 16 Feb, please contact me again. Our phone system went down and
your message was lost...m
+==============================================================+
| Mike Kamrad "senior" Engineer |
| |
| Top Layer Networks, Inc. "Layers Above the Rest" |
| |
| 2400 Computer Drive Tel: (508) 870-1300 x139 |
| Westborough, MA 01581 Fax: (508) 870-9797 |
| [log in to unmask] Web: www.TopLayer.com |
+==============================================================+
========================================================================Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:54:31 -0500
Reply-To: Chad Bremmon <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Chad Bremmon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Programming Embedded Systems in C and C++
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
This book exists.
It's out by O'reilly. I looked for something similar in Ada (95) and the most
recent thing was published in a year 198x
Is there anything out there on embedded.
I can figure it out. It's just that Embedded is where Ada had the stronghold
and now we aren't writing books for that stronghold anymore?
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Chad
========================================================================Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 00:21:17 -0800
Reply-To: Hal Hart <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Hal Hart <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: $25 Bargain -Re: SIGAda membership
X-To: Korochkin Alexandr <[log in to unmask]>
X-cc: SIGAda Extended Exec Comm <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Dear Hart,
>I would like to become a member of SIGAda ($25 Bargain).
>Where I must send my application ( by E-mail or FAX ) ?
This is a test of my ability to place downloadable files on a website.
Please set your web browser to
http://home.earthlink.net/~hal_hart/sigadapp.doc and you should get a
version of our SIGAda application with the new $25 price. And with
addresses & FAX #s to send it to.
Let me know if you can get it and read it OK. If so, I'll ask that this
file be placed conspicuously on the SIGAda website also. -Hal
========================================================================Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:07:19 -0500
Reply-To: Wesley Groleau <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Wesley Groleau <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Jobs
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Boundary="0__=eYJsGanCOmr9ngLoPplINljfwW4r0B5b5f0jJq9Sbt8q5Syxsy2L0nkt"
--0__=eYJsGanCOmr9ngLoPplINljfwW4r0B5b5f0jJq9Sbt8q5Syxsy2L0nkt
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Anyone interested in Fort Wayne, Indiana? The following applies to my
department of Raytheon only. [I would be happy to submit a r
--0__=eYJsGanCOmr9ngLoPplINljfwW4r0B5b5f0jJq9Sbt8q5Syxsy2L0nkt
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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ésumé and
recommendation for any Teamer I am "acquainted with" (via his/her posts
on this list). We are currently introducing some Java into our large Ada
product. People that understand the benefits of Ada can help us avoid
shifting to Java in those areas where Ada is clearly better.] Bracketed
material is my opinion, and not necessarily endorsed by the company. :-)
> Current Breakdown of Requirements for people:
> Entry Level Software Engineers: 24
> Software Engineers with at least 3 yrs experience: 20
> Systems Engineers: 5
> Operational Concepts: 2
> Testing Engineers: 1
> Training Engineers: 1
--0__=eYJsGanCOmr9ngLoPplINljfwW4r0B5b5f0jJq9Sbt8q5Syxsy2L0nkt--
========================================================================Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:53:33 -0500
Reply-To: Chad Bremmon <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Chad Bremmon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: $25 Bargain -Re: SIGAda membership
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I also think they are very close to having the ability to accept visa/mc over
the web for renewals etc. . .
Chad
---------------------- Forwarded by Chad Bremmon/OrbMD on 02/19/99 10:54 AM
---------------------------
Hal Hart <[log in to unmask]> on 02/19/99 03:21:17 AM
Please respond to Hal Hart <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc: (bcc: Chad Bremmon/OrbMD)
Subject: Re: $25 Bargain -Re: SIGAda membership
>Dear Hart,
>I would like to become a member of SIGAda ($25 Bargain).
>Where I must send my application ( by E-mail or FAX ) ?
This is a test of my ability to place downloadable files on a website.
Please set your web browser to
http://home.earthlink.net/~hal_hart/sigadapp.doc and you should get a
version of our SIGAda application with the new $25 price. And with
addresses & FAX #s to send it to.
Let me know if you can get it and read it OK. If so, I'll ask that this
file be placed conspicuously on the SIGAda website also. -Hal
========================================================================Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:09:52 -0500
Reply-To: "W. Wesley Groleau x4923" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "W. Wesley Groleau x4923" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Jobs
X-To: [log in to unmask]
Wow. Remind me never to use Lotus Notes to send email again. :-)
========================================================================Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:18:26 -0800
Reply-To: Hal Hart <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Hal Hart <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: $25 Bargain -Re: SIGAda membership
X-To: Chad Bremmon <[log in to unmask]>
X-cc: SIGAda Extended Exec Comm <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>I also think they are very close to having the ability to accept visa/mc over
>the web for renewals etc. . .
Yes, but I read a post just a few days ago that ACM's general forms system
for membership applications/renewals has not been updated to reflect the
new reduced SIG-only fee options. In other words, you will be charged $48
or $53 or something like that to join SIGAda without full-blown ACM
membership, instead of the $25 rate ACM enabled when they dropped their
SIG-only processing surcharge last year. Note that Word version of our
SIGAda application available on my website
(http://home.earthlink.net/~hal_hart/sigadapp.doc) allows putting it on
your credit card. -hh
========================================================================Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:31:25 -0600
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Phil Johnson <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: PEI Electronics, Inc.
Subject: persistant object in Ada
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Is there a Ada-specific method to add persistant data capabilities
to an application?
Any hints or comments are welcomed.
Phil Johnson
Phil Johnson
[log in to unmask]
========================================================================Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:09:08 -0800
Reply-To: AdaWorks <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: AdaWorks <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: question about ada (fwd)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Dear Teamers,
I received this email query about Skansholm's book. Anyone here
using it? Anyone have a answer to this question?
Richard Riehle
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:26:07 EST
From:[log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: question about ada
Where can I find some of the coded solutions to the exercises in the end of
each chapter, in the jan skansholm ada 95 from the begging book 3rd edition.
========================================================================Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:11:40 -0500
Reply-To: Chad Bremmon <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Chad Bremmon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Give the guy Credit
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
You have to give the guy credit:
Michael Barr in his book "Programming Embedded Systems in C and C++," says the
following:
"...the Ada language has many features that would simplify embedded software
development if used insead of C++."
========================================================================Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:42:04 -0600
Reply-To: "David C. Hoos" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "David C. Hoos" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: persistant object in Ada
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Johnson <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 2:43 PM
Subject: persistant object in Ada
Is there a Ada-specific method to add persistant data capabilities
to an application?
There is a small example on my FTP site which shows how to store heterogeneous data between program executions --
ftp://ftp.ada95.com/pub/pet_store.tgz
========================================================================Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 23:19:23 +0100
Reply-To: Laurent Pautet <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Laurent Pautet <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: persistant object in Ada
X-To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>; from Phil Johnson on Fri, Feb 19,
1999 at 02:31:25PM -0600
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On 19/02, Phil Johnson wrote:
| Is there a Ada-specific method to add persistant data capabilities
| to an application?
Use pragma shared_passive and gnat-3.12.
--
-- Laurent
========================================================================Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 16:34:54 -0600
Reply-To: "Squire, James A" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Squire, James A" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: persistant object in Ada
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
gnat 3.12 isn't available yet from ACT, is it? If it is, I'd like to know
where because I just looked for it and didn't find it (I'm looking for it
for a different reason)
--
James Squire Send my Spam to mailto:[log in to unmask]
MDA^H^H^HBoeing St. Louis http://www.boeing.com
Opinions expressed here are my own and NOT my company's
----------------------------------------------------------------
"I suppose there'll be a war now, hmm? All that running around
and shooting one another. You would have thought sooner or
later it would go out of fashion."
-- Londo, "The Gathering"
> ----------
> From: Laurent Pautet[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Reply To: Laurent Pautet
> Sent: Friday, February 19, 1999 4:19 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: persistant object in Ada
>
> On 19/02, Phil Johnson wrote:
> | Is there a Ada-specific method to add persistant data capabilities
> | to an application?
>
> Use pragma shared_passive and gnat-3.12.
>
> --
> -- Laurent
>
========================================================================Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:57:32 -0800
Reply-To: Do-While Jones <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Do-While Jones <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: persistant object in Ada
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "persistent data capabilities",
but I think you are talking about variables that retain their values
between program executions. If so, here is my answer. (If not, don't
bother to read any further.)
I maintain software that can be considered to be a very special air
traffic control system. (It isn't, really, but that's the best way I
can describe it.) The users can create customized windows that allow
them to view the aircraft positions, and certain other things, however
they want. They can store these custom designed layouts for future use.
The layouts are available even after they have exited the program and
re-booted the computer. Of course, these layouts are stored in files.
The trick is to give the various files unique names. I do this by
embedding a serial number in the file name. So, I need a serial number
generator that remembers the last serial number used.
The Ada package specification is something like:
package NEXT_SERIAL is
function Number return string;
end NEXT_SERIAL;
The program then creates filenames something like this:
FILENAME : constant string := "filename" & NEXT_SERIAL.Number &
".ext";
The package body of NEXT_SERIAL simply opens a file that contains a
single integer, increments it, creates a string (without a leading
blank) from the new value, writes the new value back to the file, and
returns the string.
My particular application is on a network where the user can run the
program from one of several consoles. All the consoles remember his
preferences, regardless of which console he used last. That's because
the body of NEXT_SERIAL doesn't really open a file. The body I actually
use in that application opens a TCP/IP connection to a server, which
maintains the file, and sends the value back to the client. One of the
beauties of Ada is that I was able to go from the stand-alone prototype
to the network version of the program simply by changing the NEXT_SERIAL
body.
Do-While Jones
Phil Johnson wrote:
> Is there a Ada-specific method to add persistant data capabilities
> to an application?
>
> Any hints or comments are welcomed.
>
> Phil Johnson
> Phil Johnson
> [log in to unmask]
========================================================================Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:59:26 -0800
Reply-To: "Robert C. Leif, Ph.D." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Robert C. Leif, Ph.D." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: persistant object in Ada
X-To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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From: Bob Leif, Ph.D.
To: Phil Johnson et al.
I use Ada.Direct_Io to store a Positive number (1..100) and every time the
data is saved, the number is increase by 1. At midnight, the number is reset
to 1. This number is concatenated as a suffix with the date to produce a
file name. These unique file names are used to store data from individual
experiments. I actually have two versions, one for DOS where the month is
expressed as 2 numbers and the other where the month is expressed by a 3
letter abbreviation.
However instead of the trivial example I have given, the real problem is to
create the persistent objects used in databases. The actual data type should
be generic. I tried for several years to convince my friends at INEEL to
restructure AdaSAGE by employing the object functionality and improved
generics of Ada '95. I might add that when we refer to object technology, we
should just consider Ada generics to be a very advanced part of object
technology.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Phil Johnson
> Sent: Friday, February 19, 1999 12:31 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: persistant object in Ada
>
>
> Is there a Ada-specific method to add persistant data capabilities
> to an application?
>
> Any hints or comments are welcomed.
>
> Phil Johnson
> Phil Johnson
> [log in to unmask]
>
========================================================================Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 04:42:33 -0800
Reply-To: AdaWorks <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: AdaWorks <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: persistent object in Ada
In-Reply-To: <000101be5c8d$cae37140$0d89f5d0@rleif>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In the object database domain, persistence is the quality of an object to
retain its ability for polymorphic behavior even while store in some
secondary device. This means the object always knows how to dispatch
when read into a program's primary memory.
In Ada 95 this capability is reflected in Stream_IO's ability to preserve
the tag of the object when storing it into a file. Upon reading such an
object, any dispatching operation can be invoked because of the persistence
of the tag. In this sense, it is not the only data which is persistent (of
course it is) but also the operations on the data.
This is fundamental challenge of object database software: how do we make
both the data and the operations on the data persistent?
Although the Ada "tag" is useful for this purpose in some environments,
it is not portable across all compilers. Each compiler has its own model
for a tag. Therefore, the tag, while a useful feature for designing an
object database that will always be processed by the same compiler on
the same machine, does not satisfy the larger problem of persistence as
understood in the world of object database design.
For a good paper on this subject in the context of Ada 95, see the work of
Michael Card of Lockheed-Martin in Syracuse. I think it is available on one
of the Ada web sites.
Richard Riehle
Richard Riehle
[log in to unmask]
AdaWorks Software Engineering
Suite 30
2555 Park Boulevard
Palo Alto, CA 94306
(650) 328-1815
FAX 328-1112
http://www.adaworks.com
========================================================================Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 14:23:41 -0800
Reply-To: "Robert C. Leif, Ph.D." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Robert C. Leif, Ph.D." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: persistent object in Ada
X-To: AdaWorks <[log in to unmask]>
X-cc: [log in to unmask], Howard Stewart <[log in to unmask]>,
PaulWhittington <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9902200435.A2882-0100000@netcom17>
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From: Bob Leif
To: Richard Riehle et al.
You are correct. However, one great advantage of providing the Ada source
text is that it can be recompiled on different processors. The problem then
becomes how does one transmit the data between different computers.
Standards such as DICOM (Digital Imaging and Communications in Medicine)
have, at least, attempted to address this issue. One very obvious point. The
choice of endian employed for transmission should be totally decoupled from
that used for storage.
I had suggested to INEEL that they collaborate with Michael Card of
Lockheed-Martin in Syracuse. I believe that Card has included standard
relational database operations for "atomic types" in his object database.
Conversely, many of the attributes of the "objects" in object databases are
suitable for manipulation with relational technology.
It would be of significant interest to determine how much of the existing
AdaSAGE databases could be ported to Card's FIRM: An Ada Binding to ODMG-93
1.2. or an extension thereof.
Parenthetically, if any of the readers of Team-Ada have problems with the
original PostScript versions of FIRM Adobe Acrobat Distiller translated the
June 25, 1997 PostScript version into PDF format. The file size shrank from
1,620 KB to 445 KB.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of AdaWorks
> Sent: Saturday, February 20, 1999 4:43 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: persistent object in Ada
>
>
> In the object database domain, persistence is the quality of an object to
> retain its ability for polymorphic behavior even while store in some
> secondary device. This means the object always knows how to dispatch
> when read into a program's primary memory.
>
> In Ada 95 this capability is reflected in Stream_IO's ability to preserve
> the tag of the object when storing it into a file. Upon reading such an
> object, any dispatching operation can be invoked because of the
> persistence
> of the tag. In this sense, it is not the only data which is
> persistent (of
> course it is) but also the operations on the data.
>
> This is fundamental challenge of object database software: how do we make
> both the data and the operations on the data persistent?
>
> Although the Ada "tag" is useful for this purpose in some environments,
> it is not portable across all compilers. Each compiler has its own model
> for a tag. Therefore, the tag, while a useful feature for designing an
> object database that will always be processed by the same compiler on
> the same machine, does not satisfy the larger problem of persistence as
> understood in the world of object database design.
>
> For a good paper on this subject in the context of Ada 95, see the work of
> Michael Card of Lockheed-Martin in Syracuse. I think it is
> available on one
> of the Ada web sites.
>
> Richard Riehle
>
> Richard Riehle
> [log in to unmask]
> AdaWorks Software Engineering
> Suite 30
> 2555 Park Boulevard
> Palo Alto, CA 94306
> (650) 328-1815
> FAX 328-1112
> http://www.adaworks.com
>
========================================================================Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:26:09 -0500
Reply-To: gilbert prine <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: gilbert prine <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: persistant object in Ada
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Is there a Ada-specific method to add persistant data capabilities
>to an application?
A direct_io package can be instantiated for any object type statement.
Object instances can then be stored in a file_type of the resulting
direct_io package. The combination of the file name and index (record
number) of the stored object provides a unique object ID for direct access
of these persistant data objects.
I use this approach with external index/pointer files (with their own
direct_io packages) as a data cube/network data model for an in-house data
mining engine. One interesting Ada-specific feature is that an Ascii file
with fixed length fields and records (e.g. data that might be loaded into a
relational data base table) from legacy data is a ready made direct_io file
if a two character CR_LF field is added to the direct_io data definition.
For what it is worth, this approach provides a blazingly fast specialized
database manager that, with an application specific index/pointer
architecture and data navigation, works at file processing speeds rather
than relational database speeds. Also, a data architecture using protected
types at run-time can provide Ada-specific multi-user capabilities.
Ada is an amazingly useful language for persistant data/database
development, but it seems that very few people make use of it. With very
few additional features, Ada 200X could provide an effective built-in
database engine and persistant data capability.
Gil Prine
========================================================================Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 22:14:28 -0500
Reply-To: Michael Feldman <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Michael Feldman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: question about ada (fwd)
X-To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9902191308.A3685-0100000@netcom12> from "AdaWorks" at
Feb 19, 99 01:09:08 pm
Content-Type: text
[asked Richard]
> Dear Teamers,
>
> I received this email query about Skansholm's book. Anyone here
> using it? Anyone have a answer to this question?
>
> Richard Riehle
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 22:26:07 EST
> From:[log in to unmask]
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: question about ada
>
> Where can I find some of the coded solutions to the exercises in the end of
> each chapter, in the jan skansholm ada 95 from the begging book 3rd edition.
>
As far as I know, Skansholm has not made any solutions available
on the net or otherwise. There is also no electronic code distribution
even for his book examples. Wearing my hat as SIGAda EdWG chair, I've
e-mailed him several times to suggest that he do this, but my messages
were never answered.
Putting on my hat as an author whose book competes with his, I'll take
this moment to point out that my books _do_ have electronic distributions
on the net. All the code examples are online, and some of the project
solutions, though the latter are made available only to bona fide
instructors.
Finally, the third edition of "Ada 95 Problem Solving and Program
Design" is being printed at Addison-Wesley and should be available
by March 1. It comes with a multiplatform GNAT CD-ROM which includes
(of course) all the code from the book and my data structures book.
See http://www.awl.com/cseng/titles/0-201-36123-X/
Cheers -
Mike Feldman
========================================================================Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 06:08:33 GMT
Reply-To: Simon Wright <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Simon Wright <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Booch Components 19990221
To: [log in to unmask]
I've just uploaded this release to
http://www.pogner.demon.co.uk/components/bc/
New components are Sets, (unbounded) Bags.
I've made a slight change to passive iteration, in line with the Graph
code in the last release; the container to iterate over is passed via
an iterator.
Multiway and Binary trees have various flavours of (passive) iterator
-- in-order, pre-order, post-order.
The web pages are available for download in a .zip file.
This release WILL NOT WORK WITH GNAT 3.10p. 3.11p is fine, as is OA
7.1 with restrictions (I've included special versions of the test
programs, as *_aonix.adb).
-Simon
========================================================================Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:05:51 -0500
Reply-To: "W. Wesley Groleau x4923" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "W. Wesley Groleau x4923" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: persistent object in Ada
Richard Riehle posted:
> In the object database domain, persistence is the quality of an object to
> retain its ability for polymorphic behavior even while store in some
> secondary device. This means the object always knows how to dispatch
> when read into a program's primary memory.
>
> In Ada 95 this capability is reflected in Stream_IO's ability to preserve
> the tag of the object when storing it into a file. Upon reading such an
> object, any dispatching operation can be invoked because of the persistence
> of the tag. In this sense, it is not the only data which is persistent (of
> course it is) but also the operations on the data.
>
> This is fundamental challenge of object database software: how do we make
> both the data and the operations on the data persistent?
>
> Although the Ada "tag" is useful for this purpose in some environments,
> it is not portable across all compilers. Each compiler has its own model
> for a tag. Therefore, the tag, while a useful feature for designing an
> object database that will always be processed by the same compiler on
> the same machine, does not satisfy the larger problem of persistence as
> understood in the world of object database design.
But one can redefine 'Write and 'Read to be portable. 'Input and 'output
can also be redefined, or you could include a portable representation of
the tag as part of the 'Read and 'Write.
> For a good paper on this subject in the context of Ada 95, see the work of
> Michael Card of Lockheed-Martin in Syracuse. I think it is available on one
> of the Ada web sites.
Some comments about Michael Card's FIRM. (I know two people besides
Michael who also worked on FIRM and its predecessor, RTDM.) At one time,
GE Aerospace (now Lockheed-Martin) was struggling to get Ingres to work
with the AN/BSY-2 system (the customer had a preference for Ingres).
Finally, they proved to the customer that there was NO WAY Ingres could
ever hope to handle the required data rates, and got permission to create
their own Real-Time Data Manager (RTDM) in Ada 83. This was an order of
magnitude faster than Ingres. FIRM came along after I left (I did not
work directly on RTDM either) and was an Ada 95 improvement on RTDM under
an Air Force contract.
RTDM, having been developed as part of a US DoD contract, is available at
little or no cost for other U.S. government contracts, although you might
prefer to purchase FIRM from Lockheed-Martin, just to get some degree of
support.
I don't know the exact URL, but Lockheed-Martin's web site has a little
info with contact data. I also found on the Web (don't remember where) a
paper by Mayford Roark about RTDM. It's hard to find--a Web search for
"Real-Time Data Manager" turns up LOTS of unrelated hits. However, here's
two places to look for papers on the subject:
http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/languages/ada/ajpo/docs/reports/roark/
(an entertaining warning about COTS on pages 6-7)
http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/languages/ada/ajpo/docs/reports/card/
========================================================================Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:10:09 -0800
Reply-To: "Robert C. Leif, Ph.D." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Robert C. Leif, Ph.D." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: "Some of us are more equal than others"
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From: Bob Leif
To: Team-Ada
I hope that I have quoted Orwell's Animal Farm correctly.
From: The New York Times, Monday, February 22, 1999, page C4, Compressed
Data:
"For the Big Corporation, 24-Hour Linux Support"
"And as of today a small San Francisco-based start-up, Linuxcare Inc. will
be offering large corporations an around-the-clock Linux support service."
"An uninformed user is a bad thing," said Arthur Tyde 3d, chief executive of
Linuxcare. the company's customers will be able to call for help at any
hour, paying annual service rates up to $150,000, depending on what options
they sign up for."
Karl Marx never dreamed of the ultimate exploitation, the developers working
for free! I might add, that although I do not like many things about
Microsoft and its products, Microsoft, at least, pays its programmers.
I wish to suggest again that the concept of making public the source text
(Ada) or code (other less developed languages) is a very good idea.
Conversely, giving up the right to profit from one's work can be agreeing to
be exploited.
I do not believe that the companies including IBM and there employees that
sell or participate in the sales of Linux or other "free" software reduce
their employees' compensation or corporate profits on any other part of the
transaction.
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BE5E4B.87366640
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content='"MSHTML 4.72.3612.1700"' name=GENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><SPAN class=620361617-22021999><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=2>From:
Bob Leif</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=620361617-22021999><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=2>To:
Team-Ada</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=620361617-22021999><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=620361617-22021999><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=2>I hope
that I have quoted Orwell's Animal Farm correctly. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=620361617-22021999><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=620361617-22021999><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=2>From:
The New York Times, Monday, February 22, 1999, page C4, Compressed
Data:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=620361617-22021999><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=620361617-22021999><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=2>"For the Big Corporation, 24-Hour Linux
Support"</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=620361617-22021999><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=620361617-22021999><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=2>"And as of today a small San Francisco-based start-up, Linuxcare
Inc. will be offering large corporations an around-the-clock Linux support
service."</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=620361617-22021999><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=620361617-22021999><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=2>"An uninformed user is a bad thing," said Arthur Tyde 3d, chief
executive of Linuxcare. the company's customers will be able to call for help at
any hour, paying annual service rates up to $150,000, depending on what options
they sign up for."</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=620361617-22021999><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=620361617-22021999><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=2>Karl
Marx never dreamed of the ultimate exploitation, the developers working for
free! I might add, that although I do not like many things about Microsoft and
its products, Microsoft, at least, pays its programmers. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=620361617-22021999><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=620361617-22021999><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=2>I wish
to suggest again that the concept of making public the source text (Ada) or code
(other less developed languages) is a very good idea. Conversely, giving up the
right to profit from one's work can be agreeing to be exploited.
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=620361617-22021999><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=620361617-22021999><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=2>I do
not believe that the companies including IBM and there employees that sell or
participate in the sales of Linux or other "free" software reduce
their employees' compensation or corporate profits on any other part of the
transaction. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=620361617-22021999><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01BE5E4B.87366640--
========================================================================Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 02:57:48 -0500
Reply-To: "Richard L. Conn" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Richard L. Conn" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: ASE Website and CDROM
X-To: Team Ada <[log in to unmask]>
X-cc: "Richard L. Conn" <[log in to unmask]>,
Ben Brosgol <[log in to unmask]>, Hal Hart <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi, Everyone,
For those of you who have not yet tried it out, the
Ada and Software Engineering (ASE) website (with its
associated 2-disc CDROM distribution) is freely
available to you. This website and CDROM is like
"the best of the Public Ada Library plus extras"
with the added flare of serving as an archive
for historical purposes. The ASE URL (which
has a limit of 3,600 simultaneous users) is:
ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/ase/index.htm
The website contains the same material as the
CDROM with the exception that the Card Catalog
and index on the website is oriented to the
website, while the Card Catalog and index on the
CDROM 2-disc set is oriented to the set.
A second ASE website is expected to come online
later this week. I'll post another message with
instructions when it is ready.
ASE's thrust is Software (and Systems) Engineering, and
(by the way) Ada is an excellent language to support
this activity. You can read more about ASE from its
writeup on:
http://www.cdrom.com/titles/prog/ada.htm
You can also use this site to order a copy of the
ASE CDROM 2-disc set if you wish.
The ASE 2-disc CDROM set was distributed at:
SIGAda '98
Ada-Belgium '98
It will also be distributed at:
1999 DoD Software Technology Conference
1999 ACM Computer Science Education Conference
Spring COMDEX
Some statistics:
Disc ID # Dirs # Files # Bytes
======= ====== ======= ============ ASE 01_01 415 6,859 579,955,622
ASE 01_02 271 2,838 575,871,444
=== ===== ============ Total 686 9,697 1,155,827,066
Of these files, many of them are ZIP files.
The total number of files (counting those
in ZIP files) is over 73,500.
Plans are now forming to produce a 3rd ASE
CDROM, ASE 01_03. As its ID implies, this
CDROM will be an update to the existing
2-disc set, and the ASE Card Catalog (with
Index) will cover all three discs.
For those of you who are Ada fans, the Card
Catalog and index were created using a family
of programs written in Ada called the Generic
Web-based Reuse Library (GWRL). GWRL weaves
a web from information contained in asset
descriptors, forming a hypertext document that
is compatible with HTML 2.0 and up. GWRL
(with its Ada95 source code) is included
in the ASE.
Disclaimer: I am managing the ASE website and
acting as editor of the website and CDROMs as
a public service. I receive no income from the
sale of the CDROMs. I wish to thank the CDROM
publisher, Walnut Creek CDROM, for supporting
this activity. I wish to also thank those
named in the ASE Card Catalog for their
contributions to the Public Ada Library and
other public distribution resources.
Rick Conn
ASE Manager
---------------------------------------
Richard Conn, ASE, PAL, and SDE Manager
http://xenadu.home.mindspring.com/
========================================================================Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:56:46 -0500
Reply-To: Mike Brenner <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mike Brenner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE> ada-specific method for persistent data capability
Phil > Is there a Ada-specific method to add persistant data capabilities
to an application?
Since I consider the distributed annex, input-output, and bindings
to databases or CORBA to be just Ada's ways of spelling the same
capabilities that are available to programmers in other languages,
the answer might be no, there is not an Ada-specific method of
making objects in an application persistent that could not be
emulated in other languages.
Mike Brenner
========================================================================Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:09:49 -0700
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Commercial Satellite using Ada83
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
The Danish built satellite "?rsted" was finally launched
after 10 attempts. The satellite got a free ride on board
a Delta II rocket launched from the Vandenberg air base in
California.
The software on board was built by CRI Denmark using the
DACS-80x86. The satellite will measure the Earth's magnetic
field from a height of 600-850 km.
The satellite was built on a very low budget which called
for inventing new, cheaper solutions to old problems. This
new technology has caught NASA's attention.
----------------
Our CEO sent us the following email about one of our products.
I thought it was interesting because it involves our Ada83
product and it is obviously not a military application.
David Tannen [log in to unmask]
Senior Software Engineer Technical Support: 602 252-6052
DDC-I, Inc. Office: 602 275-7172
Phoenix Office FAX: 602 252-6054
=====================================================================================================================================Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:43:39 -0500
Reply-To: Michael Feldman <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Michael Feldman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Commercial Satellite using Ada83
X-To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> from "[log in to unmask]" at Feb
24, 99 10:09:49 am
Content-Type: text
>
> The Danish built satellite "?rsted" was finally launched
^^^^^^^^
DAvid, can you get an English equivalent of that Danish character?
I want to put this on the education site. My guess is that it's Ae,
but I'd like to be sure.
> after 10 attempts. The satellite got a free ride on board
> a Delta II rocket launched from the Vandenberg air base in
> California.
Nice! Can we assume that the 9 failed attempts were not software-
related? I can just see it: "Ada software finally succeeds after
9 failures.":-)
>
> The software on board was built by CRI Denmark using the
> DACS-80x86. The satellite will measure the Earth's magnetic
> field from a height of 600-850 km.
>
> The satellite was built on a very low budget which called
> for inventing new, cheaper solutions to old problems. This
> new technology has caught NASA's attention.
>
> ----------------
>
> Our CEO sent us the following email about one of our products.
> I thought it was interesting because it involves our Ada83
> product and it is obviously not a military application.
>
> David Tannen [log in to unmask]
> Senior Software Engineer Technical Support: 602 252-6052
> DDC-I, Inc. Office: 602 275-7172
> Phoenix Office FAX: 602 252-6054
> =============================================================>
Yep, just another routine, everyday Ada success.:-)
Mike Feldman
========================================================================Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:10:07 -0600
Reply-To: Samuel Mize <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Samuel Mize <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ada-specific method for persistent data capability
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> from "Mike Brenner" at
Feb 23, 99 08:56:46 pm
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Is there a Ada-specific method to add persistant data capabilities
> to an application?
I've seen this sort of question before. It assumes that a "persistant
data" capability is well-defined and built into many languages already,
just like "object-oriented" or "multi-threaded" programming.
But looking at the web, references to "persistant data" include
data base interfaces (OO and otherwise), Javascript cookies, keeping
user-specific defaults in GUIs between log-in sessions, plain old file
systems, and I don't know what all.
If you're looking for an Ada analogue to something specific, we can
help you much better if you point out what specific thing you want.
Otherwise, I'll just say that Ada has all the power to "roll your own"
of any language. It also has:
- well-defined interfaces to C, Fortran and Cobol, which help you
interface to systems written for those languages;
- streams, which make it simple to read and write arbitrary objects
using disk files or other storage media;
- controlled objects, which can help you build objects that get their
initial values from global storage (e.g. a file) and store their
values when they cease to exist;
- generics, which can help you build a persistence mechanism that you
can then apply to any sort of data;
- tagged types, which can help you build an extensible persistance
mechanism in an object-oriented framework, if you prefer that over
using generics.
If that's not enough, let us know exactly what you're talking about!
Best,
Sam Mize
--
Samuel Mize -- [log in to unmask] (home email) -- Team Ada
Fight Spam: see http://www.cauce.org/ \\\ Smert Spamonam
========================================================================Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:02:07 +0100
Reply-To: Dirk Craeynest <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Dirk Craeynest <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Commercial Satellite using Ada83
X-To: Michael Feldman <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> from Michael Feldman
at "Feb 24, 99 01:43:39 pm"
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I'm not David, but I hope that's OK? ;-)
= > The Danish built satellite "?rsted" was finally launched
= ^^^^^^^^
= DAvid, can you get an English equivalent of that Danish character?
= I want to put this on the education site. My guess is that it's Ae,
= but I'd like to be sure.
The English equivalent name is "Oersted" (but pronounced with a 'eu'
as in the Dutch word 'deur').
I'm almost sure the first letter is normally written as an 'o' and 'e'
joined to form one character, i.e. the right side of the o touches the
left side of the e.
"Oersted" is the old unit for measuring the strength of a magnetic field
and this name matches perfectly with the mission of the satellite, which
is to measure the earths magnetic field.
Hope this helps. ;-)
Dirk
========================================================================Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:08:00 -0600
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Zachary Taylor <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Commercial Satellite using Ada83
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I believe the "?" character you are looking for is an "o" with a forward
slash through it. You can see the home page at
"http://gate.dmi.dk/projects/oersted." The aforementioned spelling is
there.
-Zack
---------------------- Forwarded by Zack Taylor/TMG/CSC on 02/24/99 03:05
PM ---------------------------
[log in to unmask] on 02/24/99 02:02:07 PM
Please respond to [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
cc: (bcc: Zack Taylor/TMG/CSC)
Subject: Re: Commercial Satellite using Ada83
I'm not David, but I hope that's OK? ;-)
= > The Danish built satellite "?rsted" was finally launched
= ^^^^^^^^
= DAvid, can you get an English equivalent of that Danish character?
= I want to put this on the education site. My guess is that it's Ae,
= but I'd like to be sure.
The English equivalent name is "Oersted" (but pronounced with a 'eu'
as in the Dutch word 'deur').
I'm almost sure the first letter is normally written as an 'o' and 'e'
joined to form one character, i.e. the right side of the o touches the
left side of the e.
"Oersted" is the old unit for measuring the strength of a magnetic field
and this name matches perfectly with the mission of the satellite, which
is to measure the earths magnetic field.
Hope this helps. ;-)
Dirk
========================================================================Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:04:09 -0500
Reply-To: Michael Feldman <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Michael Feldman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Commercial Satellite using Ada83
X-To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> from "Zachary Taylor" at Feb 24,
99 03:08:00 pm
Content-Type: text
>
> I believe the "?" character you are looking for is an "o" with a forward
> slash through it. You can see the home page at
> "http://gate.dmi.dk/projects/oersted." The aforementioned spelling is
^^^^^^^
> there.
>
> -Zack
Thanks, Zach and Dirk!
Mike Feldman
========================================================================Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:10:40 -0600
Reply-To: Philip Johnson <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Philip Johnson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ada-specific method for persistent data capability
X-To: Samuel Mize <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Samuel Mize wrote:
>
> > Is there a Ada-specific method to add persistant data capabilities
> > to an application?
>
> I've seen this sort of question before. It assumes that a "persistant
> data" capability is well-defined and built into many languages already,
> just like "object-oriented" or "multi-threaded" programming.
>
> But looking at the web, references to "persistant data" include
> data base interfaces (OO and otherwise), Javascript cookies, keeping
> user-specific defaults in GUIs between log-in sessions, plain old file
> systems, and I don't know what all.
> Otherwise, I'll just say that Ada has all the power to "roll your own"
> of any language. It also has:
I totally agree that Ada has the power. I am working on an
embedded control system and needed a way to save filename
sequence information for data logging.
I can send data out but cannot access the remote file system
(i.e. storing sequence number in a file). I have found a way of
storing it in flash memory.
[deleted numerous approaches to persistent data]
Several of the approaches you mentioned warrant investigation
for another project in the queue. That project will need to
store the state data of an object.
Thanks to everyone who provide so much good information.
Phil Johnson
========================================================================Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:37:26 -0500
Reply-To: Mike Brenner <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mike Brenner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RE> orsted
David,
I have heard somewhere about oersted. Could you give a little more
information about how it measures the Earth's magnetic field and
the part that Ada played in this satellite?
Thanks
========================================================================Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:50:02 -0700
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Commercial Satellite using Ada83
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>Could you give a little more information about how it
>measures the Earth's magnetic field and the part that
>Ada played in this satellite?
Unfortunately I don't know any more information than what
I already posted. I do have a web site you can check out
that might have more information (it might also be in
Dannish 8-).
www.oersted.dk and also the NASA web site.
I am sorry that I don't have any more information to
pass along.
David Tannen [log in to unmask]
Senior Software Engineer Technical Support: 602 252-6052
DDC-I, Inc. Office: 602 275-7172
Phoenix Office FAX: 602 252-6054
=====================================================================================================================================Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 15:02:44 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Thomas W Moran <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Movie "Conceiving Ada"
The Cinequest festival in San Jose will be showing this movie
March 2, 5:30pm, according to the SJ Mercury News. It's apparently
about "Computer genius Emmy" and her obsession with Lady Ada.
The cast includes Timothy Leary as her mentor. Has anyone seen
this movie before?
========================================================================Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 17:27:43 -0500
Reply-To: "Richard L. Conn" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Richard L. Conn" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: February PAL Activity is up from January
X-To: Team Ada <[log in to unmask]>
X-cc: "Richard L. Conn" <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi, Everyone,
During February 1999, 88,100 files were transferred
from the main PAL site at Washington University in
Saint Louis. This is up from the 58,164 files
transferred from the same site in January 1999.
Rick
---------------------------------------
Richard Conn, ASE, PAL, and SDE Manager
http://xenadu.home.mindspring.com/
========================================================================Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:41:29 -0600
Reply-To: Paul D Stachour <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: "Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)" <[log in to unmask]>
From: Paul D Stachour <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: March TwinSPIN / TCSIGada -- Measuring Programming Language
Effectiveness -- Thu, Mar 4, 6p.m., Dunwoody
Forwarded message:
TwinSPIN/TCSIGAda Meeting Announcement
| Thursday, 04 Mar 1999 |
| 6-8 pm at Dunwoody Institute* |
| (Bennett Room) |
| Minneapolis, MN |
+=================================+
Speaker: Paul Stachour
Topic: Measuring Programming Language Effectiveness
*Directions to Dunwoody Institute are included at the end
of this message
TwinSPIN web site:
www.millcomm.com/~glewwe/TwinSPIN/welcome.html
========================================================== For the Minneapolis/St. Paul Regional Area
TwinSPIN
Mission Statement
-----------------------------------------------------------
The TwinSPIN software process improvement network (SPIN)
is a regional organization established in January of 1996
as a forum for the free and open exchange of software
process improvement experiences and ideas. Representatives
from industry, government, academia, other professional
organizations, and consultants are welcome to participate.
Our mission is to help sustain commitment and enhance skills
in the area of software process improvement through an active
program of networking and mutual support. The organization
strives to serve as a source of educational and experiential
information for its members, other SPIN organizations, and
the general community of software professionals.
May 1996
-----------------------------------------------------------
Meetings are normally held on the 1st Thursday of each
month from 6-8 pm. TwinSPIN is a non-profit organization.
==========================================================
THIS MONTH'S MEETING
=================== Sponsor: WiseSoft, Shanthi Kumar V
Program Director: Paul Stachour, Net Perceptions
Topic: Measuring Programming Language Effectiveness
Speaker: Paul Stachour
---------------------------------------------------
ABSTRACT
--------
We often speak of the effectiveness of a particular
programming language. However, we seldom measure that
effectiveness. One of the more complete studies of the
effectiveness of programming languages was performed
by Rational Software. During the due-diligence process
when Rational merging with Verdix, records were examined
to determine the value of the two companies, but also to
judge the best technologies and methodologies to contine
into the future of the merged company. During that
process, the extensive and complete update records of the
Verdix Ada development showed that there might be
quantative bases for comparing the success of two
languages, C and Ada, under the fairest conditions.
The month's presentation will examine and discuss that
document (available on the web), which is entitled
"Comparing the Development Costs of C and Ada."
In addition to the report, individual data which has been
collected from various organizations will be presented.
Opportunity will be provided to discuss this, or similar
data. All attendees are challenged to bring any
measureable, sharable, results which they possess about
the effectiveness of any particular language, and to share
that information with the group.
SPEAKER
-------
Paul Stachour is the Software Quality Manager at a local
company building software for the internet. While a member
of the PL/S compiler group at IBM in 1970-1974, he observed
a number of effects on quality and productivity based on
language features and usage. Paul has been interested in
what makes software "quality software" ever since. In
particular, he is interested in what languages, features,
tools, and processes prevent defects. Paul is the current
president of TCSIGAda.
TwinSPIN Meeting Topics
====================== Month Volunteer Topic
----- --------- -----
10-Sep-98 Gina Silverstein Integrated Process & PM & the CMM
15-Oct-98 Gail Bertossi Process Improvement
05-Nov-98 Barbara Ruf JAVA Test Automation
03-Dec-98 Jesse Freese Sw Process Improvement 101
07-Jan-99 Jesse Freese Sw Process Improvement 101 (cont'd)
04-Feb-99 Jesse Freese A Better Approach to Process Definition
04-Mar-99 Paul Stachour Measuring Programming Lang. Effectiveness
01-Apr-99 Mark Glewwe ??????????????
06-May-99 Dick Hedger ??????????????
03-Jun-99 ????????????? ??????????????
A very special thanks to our volunteer program directors. YEA!
Please don't hesitate to sign up as a program director. As you
can see you have plenty of time to select a topic and prepare a
presentation/presenter. Also, if you have ideas for a topic,
please contact Jesse Freese.
Closing
====== This month will be another very interesting and informative
meeting, and if you know someone who might be interested in
attending, don't hesitate to let them know what we are doing.
Bring a friend to our meeting! Hope to see you there!
Meeting Directions
================= Dunwoody Institute is located at 818 Dunwoody Blvd in Minneapolis.
It is located at the intersection of Dunwoody and Lyndale Ave,
just north of the point where Hennepin and Lyndale come together.
The Institute is on the north side of Dunwoody. The entrance to
the parking lot is from Dunwoody and the building entrance is very
visible (large blue sign) from the parking lot.
- If you are coming from downtown Minneapolis use Hennepin Ave.
Follow Hennepin to the Lyndale intersection, cross Lyndale to
Dunwoody, and turn right into the Institute parking lot.
- If you are coming north on Lyndale/Hennepin stay on Hennepin
and turn left at the cathedral. At the next light (Lyndale) go
straight -- you are now on Dunwoody Blvd. Turn right into the
parking lot.
- There is also a Dunwoody exit from 394 East. After exiting on
Dunwoody at the first light turn left into the Institute parking
lot.
- If you are coming from 94 West take the Lyndale/Hennepin Ave
exit and follow Hennepin North, turn left at the cathedral. At
the next light (Lyndale) go straight -- you are now on Dunwoody
Blvd. Turn right into the parking lot.
- Please contact Jesse if you need additional directions.
Thanks, and we look forward to seeing you at our next meeting!
Jesse Freese
Fissure
612-882-0800
[log in to unmask]
>
>
>