> but aren't the students of today somewhat a different bunch >since they grew up with computers. I would expect they already >had some experience doing AppleScript or whatever the >equivalent is in Microsoft-land. My 11th grader is learning programming on his TI graphics calculator. So far as I know, neither Ada nor VB is available on it. Are kids with that kind of experience (and habits) becoming the Freshman norm? Re VB as a quick attractant for students: have you tried any of the Ada GUI builders? It seems they also should allow a new student to build something with buttons and lights rather quickly.