jim hopper wrote: >I do understand you need to capture students attention, but i suspect >you are misleading students into thinking computer programming is >easy. what happens next year when it gets HARD and they have to >buckle down and do real work instead of just play? I taught Ada in first year for 8 years. For many years i thought that teaching the "proper" use of strings was the way to go. I understood it. I should have noticed that the students didn't care for it, and that they used my text_package (based on the Ada83 LRM package) quite happily. When this finally clicked (boy was i slow!) i just threw away most of the string stuff, and did Unbounded_String. Result? Happy students. Students now see GUI programs, and they want their programs to look the same. Tcl/Tk/any other GUI just doesn't cut the mustard i'm afraid. Too much complicated stuff to know (pointers, packages, etc etc). Java may have its faults, but the students -really- enjoy making GUI programs. I'm sure VB is the same. Dale