Hi, John, I like what you said. I think we are coming around to this kind of conclusion. Mike Feldman also pointed out the different kinds of schools. ---------------------------------- Richard Conn, ASE and PAL Manager http://xenadu.home.mindspring.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95) > [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of John P. Woodruff > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 6:19 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: What the competition looks like > > > I've been reading the correspondence that Rick Conn started, and > some ideas > that folks stated provokes my inner curmudgeon. > > I start from Jim Hopper's (sardonic, not sincere) quote: > >Physics would keep so many more freshmen if we didn't bore them with > >the fundamentals of silly things like newtons laws of motion, and > >such. if we just went right to learning about how to use them to > >make weapons, and other glitzy fun things we would excite way more of > >them to stay in the field. > > This makes me think that there probably two collections of freshman out > there: the ones that Rick knows: > >> In a very practical sense, if you > >> try to tell Freshmen how great generics, inheritance, > >> etc., are, it's likely that those who don't quit after > >> the first two weeks will have not done so because they > >> fell asleep and did not wake up in time ;-). > > And the (far less numerous) ones that still live to the ideal > John Apa tells: > > [...] I don't recall "fun" being a > >requirement (well, maybe after class!). I certainly didn't have any > >professors that worried whether we were having fun or not, they > only cared > >if we learned the material. Besides, how much fun is it to work > 60+ hours a > >week trying to beat a deadline because your requirements changed > at the last > >minute? Or that COTS device driver doesn't quite work at all > with two days > >to go? > >I was there to learn my engineering skills so I could go out > into the real > >world, get a job, and be productive. > > > So my proposition is: there are two consumers of the education in the > computing field: folks who might follow a career path like mine > (we can get > them to major in software engineering, but when I went to university, > computers weren't science yet ;-) They earn degrees in physics or EE and > they build hard-science projects like astrophysics simulations and fusion > control systems. And the other folks: they implement the glitz for > commercial "send-in-your-money.com". > > The VB glitz builders are certainly most numerous at present (Silicon > Valley is just one traffic jam south of where I live). But I think the > lasting value of well engineered technology (yes, I mean Ada) > will continue > to offer livelihood for the engineers among us even after the current > market bubble does whatever it is that bubbles do. > > So I suggest folks who can influence computer education select their > target. Us Ada groupies can be most effective if we feed the intellects of > those students who will profit from the discipline we are able to teach. > There are such folks, but they may always be in a minority. > > -- > John Woodruff N I F \ ^ / > Lawrence Livermore National Lab =====---- < o > > 925 422 4661 / v \