Hi, Stan, I agree with your words about real-time. Ada certainly has a place there, altho it is a target to other languages as well. I have a video tape from Sun's Sunergy teleconference in 1995 where they introduced Java, and they clearly designed it originally for embedded, at least quasi-real-time applications originally and later adapted it to web applications when they saw the in-road. Microsoft is also hitting quasi-real-time with Windows CE, as is evidenced by its contracts for entertainment systems on airplanes and in home cable TV boxes (I've heard that Windows CE may soon be in as many as 1/3 of the cable TV boxes in the US). Visual Basic and Visual C++ target to Windows CE. I suspect Visual J++ (Microsoft's Java) will be there soon as well if it is not already. I still think Ada has an in-road in real-time because of what I view as the quasi-real-time nature of the Java and Windows CE environments. Pausing for a few seconds every now and then for garbage collection is not a good thing in hard real-time systems. But Sun and Microsoft know this, and it's just a matter of time before they address it one way or the other. Right now, Sun has a disclaimer in the Java license. We cannot assume this will always be there. But, then again, Sun and Microsoft may or may not be interested in the real-time markets. After all, they have shown time and again that they are in it for the money, as companies should be. Selling millions of compilers for web-based development kind of outweighs selling one compiler to a team of 75 software developers who use cheaper, non- real-time compilers for initial development followed by the real-time compiler for the production build. We need to be practical when it comes to the limited resources in our community. That's what I'm saying. If someone wants to forge out, do research, and build in a new direction, more power to them. I hope they make it. But for every star on broadway who made it, there are thousands of aspiring actors who did not. The Man of LaMancha had a beautiful dream, but the windmill still won. Ada's already won in some areas ... let's keep it that way if we can. Rick ---------------------------------- Richard Conn, ASE and PAL Manager http://xenadu.home.mindspring.com/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95) > [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Stanley Allen > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 3:09 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: What the competition looks like > > > Geoff Bull wrote: > > > > I am surprised by your defeatist attitude. > > > > For better or worse, Richard Conn is right about > trying to compete with Microsoft on its main turf. > Believing that Ada can have an impact on mainstream > PC development these days is like believing that the > Pricipality of Liechtenstein can mount a successful > land invasion of the United States. MS will continue > to be unassailable on the PC for at least another decade, > whatever the final outcome of the 'monopoly' trial and > in spite of the zooming stock price of RedHat. > > On the "server" side of the internet, the situation is > not as bleak, but almost. Entrenched forces and billion > dollar investments there ensure that the development of > that software will be done for the most part using the > "mainstream" languages. > > Unlike Richard Conn, however, I don't think I'm > whistling Dixie when I say that Ada can be a player > in the *real-time* market -- the larger bubble in > the Venn diagram that includes the 'safety-critical' > circle. The reasons are that the real-time market is > not so well-defined as the one for PC applications, > and that Ada has at least a sliver of mind-share in > "real-time software". > > "Grand schemes" of developing Ada replacements for > Windows and/or Linux should be discarded. The Ada > Dream -- all software in the world well-designed, > coded and commented in pure Ada -- is long dead. > "Success" for Ada now means (1) making sure that it > stays in use for current projects (a considerable > task in itself); (2) seeing to it that it continues > to be chosen for future projects in its own current > domain -- safety-critical systems; and (3) expanding > into some other subsectors of the real-time market. > > The last of these is crucial because it has the > most significant potential for *growth*. I don't > think the 'safety-critical' market has the growth > curve Ada needs to thrive. > > Any other here-and-there usages of Ada are pure > serendipity. Meaning that there will be no > sustainable *economy* in those areas. > > This does not mean that if you want to create a > great new application for the internet that you can't > or shouldn't do it in Ada. It just means that if it's > a programming product -- one that requires its users > code in Ada -- it is doomed. Even Liechtenstein knows > better than to mount its canons at the US border. > > Stanley Allen > mailto:[log in to unmask]