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Actually i wasnt asking you to change only commenting on your
assumption that everyone would get in line with a microsoft only
solution.

as far as finding an alternative, no i don't know of one.  standing
on principle is never as easy as just going with the flow ;-)

jim

At 8:11 PM -0400 7/6/00, Richard Conn wrote:
>Jim,
>
>I did not call the 5% insignificant ... I said they have other ways of
>contributing.
>
>If you can find me an alternative that has all the features and
>functionality
>at the same zero cost and support a more open approach, I'm all ears.
>
>====================================
>Richard Conn, Principal Investigator
>Reuse Tapestry
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: jim hopper [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 11:29 PM
>To: Richard Conn; [log in to unmask]
>Subject: RE: R_Conn invites you to join ASE LIBRARY, an MSN Web
>Community
>
>
>Richard,
>
>actually my reasons are mostly one of principle and partly practicability.
>
>On the practical i use a mac, and if it was as simple as changing to
>explorer it would annoy me but i might be able to deal.  however, its
>not really that simple.  msn is widely know to only fully support
>windows.  to fully participate i would have to change computers,
>Operating systems etc.  thats a lot to ask to participate in such an
>endeavor.  People are free to use in my mind whatever technology they
>find most useful, so i am not begrudging your choice.
>
>on the principle side i belive strongly in diversity in how problems
>are solved.  Microsoft has worked very hard to take freedom of choice
>away from us.  unless people stand up and say look i will not
>participate in your technology as long as you commit these
>anti-social acts, they will continue to do it. there is an equivalent
>mac only technology for doing web sites file sharing etc.  i would
>NEVER consider using it for anything but supporting the mac port of
>gnat, and probably not then.
>
>so please don't dismiss my concerns as "emotional" they are based
>upon a very strongly held position that Microsoft is trying their
>best to destroy! Look at what they are trying to propagate with their
>new language c# as just the latest attempt!
>
>You are correct you are a volunteer and as such its more than fair
>for you to use whatever technology you want.   I was not questioning
>that right, only commenting on your statement that it wouldnt limit
>(and fragment) the ada world.  we are small enough without excluding
>segments of our population and calling them insignificant.
>
>jim
>
>
>
>At 12:51 AM -0400 7/6/00, Richard Conn wrote:
>>Hi, Jim,
>>
>>Your position sounds more emotional than logical for a number of reasons,
>>but that's not the issue, really.  The point really is that my move in
>>this direction will not stop anyone from collaborating if they wish,
>>and, as a volunteer, this move will put a pretty good supporting
>>infrastructure
>>under me that greatly reduces my overhead and workload while simultaneously
>>increasing the level of collaboration that is possible.  I made an honest
>>attempt
>>to find a way to adapt this infrastructure while satisfying everyone,
>>including
>>the 5% that does not use Microsoft technology, and did not find a solution
>>in
>>a reasonable amount of time.
>>
>>If you can find an equivalent supporting infrastructure with the same level
>>of functionality and ease of use that addresses the entire audience, I'm
>>interested
>>in hearing about it.  Good luck.
>>
>>Rick
>>====================================
>>Richard Conn, Principal Investigator
>>Reuse Tapestry
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: jim hopper [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 1:36 PM
>>To: Richard Conn; [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: R_Conn invites you to join ASE LIBRARY, an MSN Web
>>Community
>>
>>
>>At 4:53 PM -0400 7/5/00, Richard Conn wrote:
>>>Thanks for the update, Steve,
>>>
>>>It's looking more and more like users are at least at a partial
>  >disadvantage
>>>if
>>>they use Netscape.  In this weekend's experiments, we could not find any
>>way
>>>to
>>>use Netscape in the Community Chat Room (altho there is a Netscape add-in
>>>for
>>
>>
>>what else is new!
>>
>>>chat.msn.com, but that's not the same).  However, service was very
>reliable
>>>(probably partially due to a load drop over the July 4 holiday).  Some of
>>us
>>>had 3 hours worth of Chat Room time non-stop without interruption.
>>>
>>>Hopefully, being driven to Microsoft technologies for this site won't
>drive
>>>anyone away.  Besides, there is always direct contact, but the resources
>of
>>>the Community take a lot of the work of collaboration away.
>>
>>Sorry i don't see the point of having to change my whole way of doing
>>business on the internet just to be part of this.  not to mention if
>>you are on a unix box you have no choice but to use netscape.  so yes
>>at least for me (and 2 or 3 other people i know) this will keep us
>>from collaborating.  to me its not collaboration if i have to be
>>coorced into using the tools someone else prefers.  its your site and
>>you are perfectly free (and i am sure will) disregard this ;-)
>>
>>jim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Thanks again,
>>>Rick
>>>====================================
>>>Richard Conn, Principal Investigator
>>>Reuse Tapestry
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)
>>>[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Stephen Schwarm
>>>Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 9:43 AM
>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>Subject: Re: R_Conn invites you to join ASE LIBRARY, an MSN Web
>>>Community
>>>
>>>
>>>Richard Conn wrote:
>>>>
>>>>    Hi, Jim,
>>>>
>>>>    What kind of problem led you to that conclusion?  I carefully checked
>>out
>>>>    the
>>>>    site from a UNIX system running Netscape, and it worked fine.  I know
>of
>>>at
>>>>    least
>>>>    one UNIX/Netscape user who has joined the community.
>>>>
>>>>    >From what I've been able to tell, you have to use Microsoft
>>technologies
>>>to
>>>>    MANAGE these communities, but you do not need them to JOIN and
>>>participate.
>>>>
>>>>    Rick
>>>>    ====================================
>>>>    Richard Conn, Principal Investigator
>>>>    Reuse Tapestry
>>>>
>>>>    -----Original Message-----
>>>>    From: Team Ada: Ada Advocacy Issues (83 & 95)
>>>>    [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of jim hopper
>>>>    Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2000 9:58 AM
>>>>    To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>    Subject: Re: R_Conn invites you to join ASE LIBRARY, an MSN Web
>>>>    Community
>>>>
>>>>    thanks for the invite, but either the url below is wrong or its as
>>>>    usual with MS windows only.
>>>>
>>>>    jim
>>>>
>>>>    At 6:18 AM -0700 7/1/00, User @ MSN Web Communities wrote:
>>>>    >R_Conn invites you to join the following MSN Web Community:
>>>>    >
>>>>    >ASE Library
>>>>    >Description: The Ada and Software Engineering (ASE) Library is a
>>>>    >free resource to the Software Development (all languages, but
>>>>    >particularly Ada) and Software Engineering communities. It contains
>>>>    >over 2G bytes of material.
>>>>    >
>>>>    >R_Conn wrote you this personal note:
>>>>    >
>>>>    >You are cordially invited to visit and/or join the ASE Library
>>>>    >Community on the Microsoft Network. You can keep up to date with
>>>>    >events, such as the next ASE CDROM distribution, and participate in
>>>>    >the collaboration.
>>>>    >
>>>>    >
>>>>    >
>>>>    >JOIN THIS COMMUNITY
>>>>    >Interested in becoming a member of this community? Click the link
>below
>>>to
>>>>    ><http://communities.msn.com/ASELibrary/join?iid=>Join Now
>>>>    >  http://communities.msn.com/ASELibrary/join?iid=
>>>>    >
>>>>    >COME BACK SOON
>>>>    >Once you have joined the community, you can get back to it at any
>>>>    >time by clicking the link below. We suggest you add this link to
>>>>    >your favorites.
>>>>    ><http://communities.msn.com/ASELibrary>ASE Library
>>>>    >  http://communities.msn.com/ASELibrary
>>>>    >
>>>>    >
>>>>    >MORE INFORMATION ABOUT COMMUNITIES
>>>>    >An MSN Web Community is a great place to share information, get
>>>>    >things done, and have fun online. Your family, friends, club,
>>>>    >organization -- any group you can think of -- can all enjoy the
>  >>   > >benefits of their own MSN Web Community.
>>>>    >
>>>>    >Learn more about MSN Web Communities or get help on how to join at
>our
>>>>    ><http://communities.msn.com/help>Help Page
>>>>    http://communities.msn.com/help
>>>>    >
>>>>    >
>>>>    >Get your private, free e-mail at
>>>>    ><http://www.hotmail.com>http://www.hotmail.com
>http://www.hotmail.com
>>>>    >
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>>>>    >or if you received this message by mistake, please click the
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>>>>    ><mailto:[log in to unmask]
>>>>    >me from ASELibrary>Remove my e-mail address from ASE LIBRARY
>>>>
>>>>    --
>>>>    If you wish to strive for peace of soul then believe;
>>>>    if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire.
>>>>        -- Friedrich Nietzsche
>>>I had a little trouble with Netscape 4.7 on a Sun but I did get it to
>>>work.  I got a bunch of 404 errors but it would the find the page on the
>>   >next try.  I do have a fast connection so that my have something to do
>>>with it.  I'll have to try it from home.
>>>
>>>I probably doesn't work any better with IE :-)
>>>
>>>Steve
>>
>>--
>>If you wish to strive for peace of soul then believe;
>>if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire.
>>      -- Friedrich Nietzsche
>
>--
>If you wish to strive for peace of soul then believe;
>if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire.
>     -- Friedrich Nietzsche

--
If you wish to strive for peace of soul then believe;
if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire.
    -- Friedrich Nietzsche